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Calls for a government-commissioned Wanless-style review of social care have been dismissed by the community care minister.

Stephen Ladyman said such a review would be "condemned to fail" if it took place before the green paper on adult services was published.

He asked: "Since we have not yet published the green paper how can we have that process? How can we cost social care when we do not yet know its shape?"

He told delegates at the annual conference of training body Topss England last week that there would be four times as many people needing care in 2020, many of whom would have complex needs.

"It is not realistic to think that four times the people will mean four times the cost. Having Sir Derek [Wanless] tell us that will not make it any more realistic or affordable."

But he added that Wanless's review of services for older people, commissioned by the King's Fund, would no doubt help the government.

The green paper, which Ladyman said had been postponed because the prime minister wanted to be involved in its launch, will be published next month.

Ladyman said the sector should look to the disability strategy, published by the cabinet office
last month and which promotes ideas such as personalised budgets, and "expect more of the same" in the green paper.

Ladyman also told the conference that a social care degree would be introduced if it had enough support from the sector.

Social workers made up a small proportion of the workforce and a course for social care would "reflect that difference", he said. "My personal view is that, if I was working in social care, I would not want to have to be a social worker to be qualified to degree [level]."

Topss England chief executive Andrea Rowe said that the sector needed to consider whether people should be cared for by someone with a degree and how the sector could ensure that a social care degree would not split the workforce.

• Ladyman wrote to social services directors this week thanking them for their "active engagement" in the Department of Health's recent work, and promising to meet them in April to "really get into the issues which are of interest to you".