Community Care
  • Click to see all the latest social work and social care jobs

Lord Carey’s immigration stance is not very Christian

If the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Carey, is to bebelieved, the anger felt by many people regarding immigration is so great thatviolence could result.

The right-wing Conservative MP Enoch Powell pulled a similarverbal stunt in 1968 in his “rivers of blood” speech – and the whiteriot never materialised.

So why Lord Carey has been revisiting Powell’s discreditedtheme is a mystery. What is not in dispute is that the UK’s population may top70 million by 2033.

Yet, by accident or design, Lord Carey has managed to linkthe rise in population with immigration, an association that is both poorlythought-out and dangerous.

As Joan Smith argues in the Independent today, perhaps LordCarey and his cohorts should be looking towards promoting the benefits of contraceptionin order to control population growth. After all, we in the West are always keento extol the virtues of birth control in discussions about family size in developing nations.

But Lord Carey sorties even further into la-la land when hetalks about giving preference to Christian immigrants.

As it happens, most immigrants in modern Britain do comefrom nominally Christian countries, whether they are from eastern Europe, the whiteCommonwealth or, in lesser numbers these days, the Caribbean.

What Lord Carey has forgotten is that the UK has moved onfrom being the god-fearing, old-maid-cycling-to-church society of yore to onethat is increasingly defined by agnosticism and atheism.

The real threat to Christianity is not from immigrants butfrom within. Increasingly, UK citizens do not define themselves as Christian,and many who do use the term use it loosely because they might havebeen christened or baptised at an early age before they could make up their minds for themselves.

What we can do without, as we head towards a general election, is an out-of-touch former archbishop making sweeping statements that send thedebate in the wrong direction. Moreover, they are a poor advert for Christianity.

, , , , ,

17 Responses to Lord Carey’s immigration stance is not very Christian

  1. Stewart Cowan 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    What is it with Socialists and their anti-Christian stance? Why are you so keen to wipe out the source of our culture and values? Why do you imagine that some godless Utopia is around the corner? Give me one example of such a society.

    Of course the rise in population is linked to immigration, with the declining birth rate of the native population. I don’t understand how you can say otherwise.

    New Labour has already admitted that mass immigration was a deliberate policy to change society.

    ‘Birth control’ and ‘family planning’ are eugenics terms and it’s about time they were recognised as such.

    “The real threat to Christianity is not from immigrants but from within.”

    I agree with you there. We can especially blame the ‘christians’ Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.

    With the decline in the birthrate among the white population due to them falling for the eugenics programme that encourages them to limit the size of their families, another 9 million people would mean perhaps 10 million immigrants and children of immigrants and consequently a further deterioration in the customs and values of our country.

    This is an issue that affects all British people, so it would help if you saw it that way and not an excuse to bash Christians.

  2. Paul Berry 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    I think that if you bother to read between the lines, you will discover that Lord Carey is referring to the rapid growth of the Islamic population within Britain and the accelerating lack of tolerance of all other faiths (including those professing no faith) that is accompanying it.

  3. Nigel Reigate 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    So you want this country to be occupied by large white christian families do you, Stewart? Are you a BNP member?

  4. Stewart Cowan 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    Nigel Reigate,

    “Are you a BNP member?”

    I certainly am not. Patriotic equals BNP in your eyes, obviously. That’s a shame.

  5. Stewart Cowan 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    …and I didn’t mention colour. It is not just white people who are patriotic and want our way of life preserved. Stereotype much?

  6. Nigel Reigate 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    Actually, Stewart, you DID mention colour in your original post: “With the decline in the birthrate among the white population due to them falling for the eugenics programme that encourages them to limit the size of their families, another 9 million people would mean perhaps 10 million immigrants and children of immigrants and consequently a further deterioration in the customs and values of our country.”

    My point is that you seem to have a very inward looking and prejudiced view of anybody who is different from you [as do the BNP], and that includes your absurd assertion that I “obviously” equate patriotism with support for the BNP.

    While we’re at it, what do you mean by “the customs and values of our country”?

  7. Stewart Cowan 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    Right enough, so I did. I was really referring to your suggestion that I only wanted white people to live here.

    It’s not about being “inward looking and prejudiced”. New Labour has admitted using immigration as a social engineering mechanism. That’s the whole point – THEY are the ones being underhanded and then they shout ‘racist’ if you object. Well, I’m not racist and I do object to New Labour’s social engineering. It’s treason and the perpetrators, I hope, will be tried under the next government.

    Do I have to remind you of our customs and values? How old are you? Not old enough to remember good manners, Sunday School, fair play, fair trials, honest politicians, proper education, the extended family, real coppers, when men were men and women were glad of it, etc.!

  8. Nigel Reigate 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    Stewart,
    I’m no more a fan of New Labour than you appear to be. They’re in the pocket of big business and see immigration as a source of cheap labour, while at the same time bullying asylum seekers. This isn’t “social engineering”, it’s general incompetence and spite for electoral gain. Once again, while claiming to not be of the same ilk as the BNP, you adopt their language : “treason” and hoping they will be “….tried under the next government”.

    I was born in the 1950s, for your information, and I’m all for good manners, fair play, fair trials, honest politicians, proper education, real coppers etc etc. These are human rather than specifically British values. As for some of your other examples, eg the religious indoctrination of children and the subjugation of women, these should have no place in any culture.

  9. Stewart Cowan 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    Nigel,

    Contrary to your suggestion of “general incompetence,” I put it to you that it has been very competently carried out. The government knew exactly what it was doing by encouraging, especially Muslim, immigrants.

    Sunday School is “the religious indoctrination of children” is it? Must be why all those Christians are strapping on bombs before going into packed markets and buses.

    And “the subjugation of women” is what exactly? Forcing them to leave their kids with strangers while they sit at a WP, sewing machine or supermarket checkout?

  10. Nigel Reigate 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    Stewart,

    I have no more truck with Muslim indoctrination than I do with Christian or any other kind. After all, there’s no such thing as a “Christian” or “Muslim” child, only environments where lies dressed up as religion are propagated. The problem is exacerbated by the government’s ongoing allowance of faith schools and proposals of spurious “anti-blasphemy” legislation. As for your response to my criticism of you for apparently supporting the subjugation of women, I quote your own words: “….when men were men and women were glad of it…”.

    Also, I’ll ask again, what “British values” are under threat from imigration: real ale? Cricket? Football? Morris dancing? They all seem to be thriving!

  11. Stewart Cowan 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    Nigel,

    I hope Mr McNabb doesn’t mind us having it out on his blog.

    “After all, there’s no such thing as a “Christian” or “Muslim” child…”

    What there are, though, are parents who are religious. Who are you to say how they should raise their children?

    New Labour got rid of our blasphemy law – no doubt so they can introduce an Irish-style law which will cover all religions. For every Christian thing you get rid of, something bad comes to fill the void. Hopefully, you’ll see that one day soon.

    Yes – “when men were men and women were glad of it.” The clue is there – women were GLAD of it. Do you think they like the hectic lifestyle of today, just to try and pay the bills. If you ask me, it’s more slavery than women’s lib. But that’s the whole agenda: enslaving and pauperising the population.

    “what “British values” are under threat from immigration”

    How about the laws based on our Judeo-Christian heritage. You might want Sharia…

  12. Mike McNabb 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    No problem at all, Stewart and Nigel. I am more than happy to read and post your exchanges.

    Mike

  13. Nigel Reigate 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    Hello Stewart,

    I certainly DO NOT want Sharia law as it’s reactionary, oppressive and sexist. I want laws based on human, not religious, “values”. After clarifying that [and I'm amazed that I need to spell it out to you], it’s obvious that you and I live on different ethical and political planets, so perhaps we should just agree to differ. I’ve enjoyed the exchanges, though.

  14. Stewart Cowan 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    Nigel,

    If the laws of the land are not based on Christian ethics, then they have to be man-made or based on another religious system.

    The choice in the UK at present, therefore, is between Sharia and humanism.

    One represents the views of strict Islam and the other represents a world view that is almost as unpleasant and which seeks to limit the freedom of anyone who has a faith, which is the majority of people.

    Whether you believe in the supernatural or not, you still have beliefs which you think are superior to mine because you think they are based on “reason” and “logic”. However, if your world view is wrong, your logic and reasoning also are.

    It’s the scenario “atheists”/humanists dare not think about…

  15. Nigel Reigate 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    Stewart,

    As you evidently have a world view that is based on prejudice and cosy certainties which are light years away from my view of things, I think it’s a waste of time continuing with this.

  16. John 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    Whether or not the predicted population increase is due to immigration, something needs to be done about population.

    It is not at all Christian to approve of population rises that run a huge risk of catastrophic population reduction in the next 100 years.

    See Is Global Warming a threat because of overpopulation?.

    The high risk of a murderous effect of population expansion is obvious. I would like the International Court to make a list of supporters of massive population rise and then try them for crimes against humanity in their old age.

  17. John 12 April , 2013 at 12:33 am #

    You don’t seem to have published my previous comment so I will just make a simple point. Overpopulation is a very serious issue given the current threat of global warming and the resultant dislocation of world food prices etc. A four degree warming this century would lead to southern europe becoming uninhabitable. So why are you lot discussing racism when your grandchildren might die if the UK has an unsustainable population?