After reading a comment in the recent Community Care Magazine, does anyone this Social Workers should only train once they are 25?

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domwidd Posted: 30 Apr 2009 8:11 PM

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I am 22 and I am in my last year of the MA in Social Work, I have had comments made to me that I am too young to want to become a Social Worker as I have not had enough life experience.  I feel slightly disgruntled at these comments.  In the recent Community Care edition, a anonymous commentor noted that Social Workers cannot be taken seriously if they are under 25. Isn't Social Work about challenging preconceptions and injustice? In that case how can all under 25's be classed as the same! Just wanted to know what others feel about this issue?

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surfer replied on 1 May 2009 12:09 PM

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I don't think that a blanket "no under 25s" statement is fair. However, I do think it is true that "life experience" is important in social work and that people in their 30s or 40s should be encouraged to consider it as a possible career change.

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KDx replied on 1 May 2009 12:37 PM

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I will begin my BA in social work this year and I will be 22 when graduating. I think it's unfair to state that under 25s are too young. What's wrong with wanting a career in social work under the age of 25? Perhaps I won't have the life experience of someone older than me but we all start in the same boat as students. I don't think age difference will make you more of an effective social worker. When I went to my interviews the mature students did seem to have more life experience but I felt I made as equally good points as they did. I agree with you when you say that social work is about challenging preconceptions and injustice so I feel it is unfair for anyone to say this. I'm not going to let the opinions of anyone stop me from studying the degree, why should I? The best thing to do is prove those who think this wrong!

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Bulldog Allan replied on 1 May 2009 12:38 PM

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Why 25.

This is my view – yes I do think in general there should be an age at which it is recognised that it is a more appropriate age to enter social work.

Ok, lets put this into context, yes there are some excellent social workers who are younger than 25, I have worked with some and benefited.   But, I see it as an issue more about percentages, I will say more about this in a mo.   So what skills are needed to be a social worker, well, you need academic ability, which you can have at any post school age, you need experience, again you can get some experience post school and whilst on placements during your training.   So far so good for our young members, what else do you need? A level of maturity, a broad mind, a broad understanding of issues that lead to problems, a thick skin with a caring heart, empathy, self control, self awareness, motivation, resilience, ability to reflect, humility, ability to empower, an understanding of power imbalances, emotional strength, ability to cope with pressure and stressful situations, ability to cope with conflict, and much more.

Does this mean that if you are under 25 you can’t have these attributes, of course not, then does it mean if you are over 25 you will have these attributes, of course not.   But this is where my percentages argument come in, at 21 you are less likely to have a number of these attributes, at 23 the percentage increases, at 25 it increases further and so on.   Therefore, I do think that in general age does play a part, although there will always be individuals who show many additional positive traits at a much earlier age.   The balance to all this is that the older you are and the longer you remain in social work, then the higher your risk of burn out, loss of compassion, becoming cynical etc.

Just my humble opinion

Bulldog Allan

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KDx replied on 1 May 2009 12:39 PM

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Oh and I do agree that mature students should not think that they are too old to study social work either! If it's a career your considering, whatever your age, you should go for it!

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aitch replied on 1 May 2009 9:18 PM

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There is another hurdle younger social workers have to overcome as well - and that's the prejudice of the client groups they are working with - who also often take the view that the younger social worker cannot be of any help to them because they have no life experience.  Similarly social workers who don't have children of their own but are working in children & families also often face a similar prejudice from parents: "what do you know?".

I know it's probably not popular to say this but I suspect one of the reasons there is now much debate about whether or not the new degree is meeting the needs of the profession is because the profession is now attracting a much younger staff base and the no degree can teach 'life experience'.  That's not fair on younger students who do have the life experience and life skills for social work.  It also doesn't take into account the fact that some people can reach retirement with virtually no 'life experience' either.

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surfer replied on 5 May 2009 1:52 PM

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Cats Eyes:

Personally I do not think that social work should exclude the under 25's as everyone is not the same and some young people have undergone life experiences inform decision making for them. It is important what ever the age to provide good support both at university and in employment for the complexities of a social worker's role what ever branch of the service an individual decides to go into. I also agree with the other comment that individuals in their 30's and 40's should also consider retraining for the profession. In my own case I was a mature student who started her training at age 30, that did not make me better or worse than anyone younger or older.

But did it make you a better social worker than you would have been in your 20s?

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Cats Eyes replied on 5 May 2009 2:17 PM

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surfer:

Cats Eyes:

Personally I do not think that social work should exclude the under 25's as everyone is not the same and some young people have undergone life experiences inform decision making for them. It is important what ever the age to provide good support both at university and in employment for the complexities of a social worker's role what ever branch of the service an individual decides to go into. I also agree with the other comment that individuals in their 30's and 40's should also consider retraining for the profession. In my own case I was a mature student who started her training at age 30, that did not make me better or worse than anyone younger or older.

But did it make you a better social worker than you would have been in your 20s?

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Cats Eyes replied on 5 May 2009 2:17 PM

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surfer:

Cats Eyes:

Personally I do not think that social work should exclude the under 25's as everyone is not the same and some young people have undergone life experiences inform decision making for them. It is important what ever the age to provide good support both at university and in employment for the complexities of a social worker's role what ever branch of the service an individual decides to go into. I also agree with the other comment that individuals in their 30's and 40's should also consider retraining for the profession. In my own case I was a mature student who started her training at age 30, that did not make me better or worse than anyone younger or older.

But did it make you a better social worker than you would have been in your 20s?

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vicky29 replied on 5 May 2009 2:45 PM

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Nobody suggests that doctors, nurses or teachers need to be over 25 to train and nobody suggests that other professional need 'life experience' in order to do their job competently. Social workers are really bad at getting across the substance of their expertise, which is why many people think anyone can do the job with a bit of life experience. As a social work degree admisssions tutor, I ask applicants what they hope to learn if they come on the course - many of them find this difficult to answer. Even after lots of prompting, we usually only get a bit about communications skills, the law and 'learning how to help people'.

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KDx replied on 5 May 2009 3:44 PM

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I hate this issue too! I have already said my piece. I would find it very unfair of someone to say I was too young. Social work is about your ability to relate to people, putting yourself in someone elses shoes and seeing beyond your own experiences . No one in this world has experienced everything and everyone has experienced different issues in their lives which may be similar or completely different. The main thing is that you are dedicated to supporting people. I know for certain that I will work my butt off as I do with everything else and perhaps I may find that social work is not for me. However you never know until you have tried and currently being a social worker is want I personally want to achieve. If anyone in the future thinks that I'm too young I would certainly prove them wrong

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isthatuitsme replied on 5 May 2009 4:48 PM

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I am not too convinced that an age 'limit' such as 25 would solve anything, especially help with the current crisis in recruitment and retaining workers.  I really think this goes back to the Colleges and Universities that are turning out the social work students as qualified social workers.  More vetting and weeding out of the persons that are not ready to take on the role as a social worker needs to happen. 

Age has never been an issue for me when I have come across poor practicing social workers.  It usually is based it their training, or lack of, or the fact that this is not the profession for them, which again would lead me back to the Universities/Colleges that are educating new social workers.

Poor practice can come at any age.  Not necessarily because someone is lacking in 'life experience'.  Newly qualified social workers, espcially younger ones, can often bring with them a new enthusiasm about the work that we are doing and they can often provide valuable information about new trends and ideas in social work. 

'Life experience' does play a role, but it can also hinder a very good social worker from being effective if they have not dealt effectively with that 'life experience', ie needing to go to counselling themselves.

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Cats Eyes replied on 5 May 2009 5:07 PM

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isthatuitsme:

I am not too convinced that an age 'limit' such as 25 would solve anything, especially help with the current crisis in recruitment and retaining workers.  I really think this goes back to the Colleges and Universities that are turning out the social work students as qualified social workers.  More vetting and weeding out of the persons that are not ready to take on the role as a social worker needs to happen. 

Age has never been an issue for me when I have come across poor practicing social workers.  It usually is based it their training, or lack of, or the fact that this is not the profession for them, which again would lead me back to the Universities/Colleges that are educating new social workers.

Poor practice can come at any age.  Not necessarily because someone is lacking in 'life experience'.  Newly qualified social workers, espcially younger ones, can often bring with them a new enthusiasm about the work that we are doing and they can often provide valuable information about new trends and ideas in social work. 

'Life experience' does play a role, but it can also hinder a very good social worker from being effective if they have not dealt effectively with that 'life experience', ie needing to go to counselling themselves.

 

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Boomerang replied on 5 May 2009 5:21 PM

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I qualified when I was 23 and this was considered to be young. My friend also qualified at 22. I have been a Team Manager for the last 5 years. I can honestly say that I do not think age affects your ability to be a SW, you just need a good dose of common sense! I also have say that I have met SW's who have been in the job years and are not very good. It is down to the individual and the qualities they bring not their date of birth!

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surfer replied on 5 May 2009 6:31 PM

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Anyone know what the clients think? Other than anecdote, I mean. Has there been any research?

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domwidd replied on 5 May 2009 9:27 PM

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I am glad that I asked this question! As far as I am aware there is not a lot of research done on social workers and age.  Personally, I don't think that all under 25's can deemed as having no life experience and therefore not appropriate to enter the social work degree.  Every individual should be judged on their own abilities in the interviewing process.

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Nadine replied on 6 May 2009 7:37 AM

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Our region is in the full throes of a customer satisfaction survey which encompasses the "age" question. I have heard client complaints about young social workers, particularly those with no children, along the lines of them not "getting it".  I have also noticed that some (not all) younger social workers get frustrated with complex family dynamics, blended families, aggressive older parents with teens, etc. I have had to step in, at times, and re-draw the boundaries, sometimes letting a client know that their behaviour around their children and the younger worker is totally unacceptable. Truthfully, I can see why a family with a spread of children of all ages will not take kindly to a twenty something telling them how to parent. I do not like having to do step in, as it completely undermines the case worker, but sometimes it is necessary. There are some clients who will do their utmost to intimidate a young worker out of the door. Part of CP work (and experience) is to find ways of dealing with families like that. I have watched fifty year old workers get nailed to the floor by certain clients, such is their grasp of their own manipulative and bullying skills. I have to say, however, that complaints against young social workers are not a frequent occurrence. I work with a great mixed team of really experienced social workers and "newbies" and would not have it any other way. You never stop learning; sometimes I really do need to absorb the optimism, viewpoints and enthusiasm of a newly qualified worker.  

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Bulldog Allan replied on 6 May 2009 10:28 AM

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Again, not everyone has to have had “the life experience” to be a social worker, but having a broader perspective of the world around does make a significant difference.  I qualified at 34, that was right for me, as in my 20’s I was not clear about my path, but it is encouraging to see young people who are enthusiastic, focused and sure about their future in social work.   Although, again, I have seen a number of people hit their 30’s realising they made some duff career choices in their 20’s because they rushed in too young to fully appreciate all the choices.

What we should all remember is that Social Work is one of the most emotionally demanding careers around, I have great respect for colleagues who work in front line child protection no matter what age, but it just comes back to my earlier argument about percentages.

I think on balance after reading all your comments along with own views, I would err against a blanket ban, but would hope that as mentioned by isthatuitsme and cats eyes, the universities and first post providers need to do more to ensure that only those suitable for the profession should remain.

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frankly replied on 6 May 2009 11:43 AM

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 Whilst this is an interesting disussion, no one seems to be a bit bothered by the direct and indirect forms of age discrimination under disscussion, since 2006 it has been illegal to discriminate on the grounds of age with regards employment and education/training.

"An employer refuses to offer a job to a young candidate, even though the candidate has the skills and competencies required for it. The employer sees the position as one of authority and does not feel the young candidate will be respected or taken seriously because of his age. This is an example of direct discrimination."

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/yourrights/equalityanddiscrimination/age/Pages/Age.aspx

Equality Bill

The main elements of the Bill are:

• Banning age discrimination in the provision of goods, facilities or services and public functions.

http://www.commonsleader.gov.uk/output/Page2657.asp

 A long way to go before our ageism can be addressed.

When applying for a job or training I just leave off my date-of-bith and only provide date-specific education history with regards higher education level study. So in theory I could be any from any age.

The move toward a 'Masters' level social work qulification requirement, could also have an indirect effect of blocking 'younger' cadidates from becoming social workers, particularly if the 3 year degree is deemed 'inadequate'.

 It is worth remembering that it can take 5 years training to become a medical Doctor and thus one could be called Dr so and so at age 23

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Cats Eyes replied on 6 May 2009 12:25 PM

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frankly:

 Whilst this is an interesting disussion, no one seems to be a bit bothered by the direct and indirect forms of age discrimination under disscussion, since 2006 it has been illegal to discriminate on the grounds of age with regards employment and education/training.

"An employer refuses to offer a job to a young candidate, even though the candidate has the skills and competencies required for it. The employer sees the position as one of authority and does not feel the young candidate will be respected or taken seriously because of his age. This is an example of direct discrimination."

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/yourrights/equalityanddiscrimination/age/Pages/Age.aspx

Equality Bill

The main elements of the Bill are:

• Banning age discrimination in the provision of goods, facilities or services and public functions.

http://www.commonsleader.gov.uk/output/Page2657.asp

 A long way to go before our ageism can be addressed.

When applying for a job or training I just leave off my date-of-bith and only provide date-specific education history with regards higher education level study. So in theory I could be any from any age.

The move toward a 'Masters' level social work qulification requirement, could also have an indirect effect of blocking 'younger' cadidates from becoming social workers, particularly if the 3 year degree is deemed 'inadequate'.

 It is worth remembering that it can take 5 years training to become a medical Doctor and thus one could be called Dr so and so at age 23

 

 

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KDx replied on 6 May 2009 12:33 PM

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My comment has nothing to do with age. But eggnchips comment above just recalled a memory - one of the university interviews I went to was in the middle of a large city and many of the candidates I spoke to lived very close to the university. I don't think I will ever forget one of the candidates saying more or less these words (not infront of the lecturers fortunately for the candidate), "I've just chosen this course because I live around the corner and there is a bursary". I actually couldn't believe someone would say that. Of course if it wasn't for the bursary people would find themselves in even more financial difficulty, including myself and some may not even be able to persue the degree. However to apply for a course just because there is a bursary made me feel very shocked. Do they know how demanding and challenging the degree is, let alone the job itself? I personally hope that they were not offered a place and it went to someone who genuinely wants to become a social worker. The bursary can attract people towards the degree but why would you want to study a subject that wasn't something you were interested in.

On a lighter note - a friend of mine went to her children's nursing interview. When they asked her why she had chosen the university she said - "I like this city because the people are friendly and there are good shops". After she came out of the interview she actually realised what they had meant.

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Adra replied on 6 May 2009 1:41 PM

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You know what annoys me about this thread? Everyones agreeing  dammit i was well up for a fight on this issue

You know its the term 'life experiance' that bothers me the most. As if life is directly linked to valuable experiance. I move that we strike 'life experiance' from the thread and just use 'experiance' instead. Thats what we are talking about after all.

 Social work students need 'experiance' but not just that which is derived from being skilled enough to live past 25...

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aitch replied on 7 May 2009 10:55 PM

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Bulldog Allan:

having a broader perspective of the world around

This sounds a better phrase than "life experience".  As others have said "life experience" can sometimes take a lot of time to recover from.  You can also die of old age blinkered and without ever having had a "broader perspective of the world around" you.  The suggestion about what the service users think is a good one.

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justme replied on 8 May 2009 2:58 PM

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This same issue was around when I qualified at the age of 26 in 1982 and probably always will be. The thing is that the service users I worked with always assumed that I had kids and were surprised to fine that I didn't. Frankly its the person not the age.

I'm thinking of trying for a drama degree when I'm 60 and why not

One of the best students I ever had working with me [ as his practice teacher] was a 22 year old who had been to public school. He thought about things and had fantastic observational skills

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queenb replied on 8 May 2009 6:35 PM

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 At the end of the day, what is life experience? You could argue that if you have lived 20 years you have experience of life. What do we mean by it?

For example, I am 37, but not a parent. I have also never been old, had dementia, had down's syndrome or been confined to a wheelchair.  Does that mean then, that due to my lack of experience of thse things,. I am not suitable to work in children's services, or in a disability team or with the elderly? NO!  I have, however, had mental health difficulties, and have experienced domestic violence. Does that auomatically mean I will be able to understand anybody else's experiences of mental health problems or violence? NO!  Because no two people will experience even an identical event in exactly the same way: their emotions, reactions and long-term responses will differ. 

Empathy, and values have nothing to do with experiences somebody has accumulated in their years of life.  Neither are they anything to do with being aware of all the difficulties some people have, or of all the possibilities that this world offers. They don't develop gradually with age- if a 16 year old has no capacity for empathy, it is unlikely they will have a massive capacity for it at 80.  And so if at 40 a person has the potential and qualities to be a good social worker, they most likely had the same potential at the age of 18, whether or not they were ready to act on it. 

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novem replied on 14 May 2009 12:24 PM

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I think the significant thing here is the lack of direct social WORK experience

The social work degree is completely useless when 22 year olds or 50 year olds are qualifying with placements experience being the only social WORK they have experienced.

People are spending three years and thousands of pounds for a degree that offers experience that is essesntially meaningless when trying to get a job and they become unemployable. I dont think it matters whether you are twenty or one hundred and twenty its social WORK experience that people need. 

When you had to be 25 to train as a social worker people had been working in the field before they did their professional training and continued to do so during their training.  It was this that was important not them being 25 or older.

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surfer replied on 18 May 2009 11:51 AM

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cazcaz:

Some are so set in their ways, and don’t consider any other option or opinion from fellow students/professionals this i find very worrying.

 

They sound like the average teenager!

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alib replied on 20 May 2009 12:56 PM

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I don't think the age of social workers matters, what is important is your knowledge and attitude to the job.  I have trained and have worked with social workers in their 20s who are very skilled and good at the job and been very worried about older collegues, some of whom have very 'dodgy' attitudes.  We need to make sure social workers have the skills and knowledge that is needed to do the job and those that can't meet those requirements should be weeded out - this is where we are failing at the moment.

 Of course service users will make complaints about social workers, it goes with the job as we may be intervening in their lives in ways they do not like.  It is easy for them to complain about the young age of a workers, just as it is for them to complain about colour/race/gender of social workers, all which I have seen or heard of.  Social workers need good support and training whatever their age.

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ptmrtmr replied on 20 May 2009 1:39 PM

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I am 21 and i begin my final year in septmber. I have experienced alot of age discrimination since i have begun my course and i have found other social workers tend to look down at u or ignore u. I think the issue is disgusting. IT shouldnt be based on age, it should be based on maturity. I have been told recently that my record writing is better and more accurate than many qualified social workers. Older people need to take note.

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stevienicks76 replied on 20 May 2009 7:20 PM

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I absolutely believe that SW should enter this profession with as much life experience as possible, I waited until I was 32 yrs to undertake the MA and worked in social care.  I purposefully did not enter this profeession at at an earlier age as I did not feel I could undertake the job to the best of my ability.  I totally think that social workers should enter their training at the age of 25 or over, as so many times have I seen individuals who are alot younger than me 'out of their depth' due to limited life experience, lack of appropriate social care paid/unpaid work and immaturity.  How can someone who is 23 years of age (who is living at home) work with the most socially disadvantaged in society without going through and experiencing life its self!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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KDx replied on 20 May 2009 7:51 PM

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Of course everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions on this subject. I feel that saying someone who is 23 and living at home cannot work within the disadvantaged is not a true statement. Whats to say that someone under the age of 25 has experienced less within their lives than someone older? I'm also sure there are many many people over the age of 25 who struggle with their social work training. Every single person who studies the degree will find difficulties along the way and definately will during their career. Does this mean that those under 25 will find the degree even more difficult than those over 25? "Life experience" is an awful statement - no one will experience everything during their lives. Just because I have experienced depression does not mean someone else who has also experienced depression would have had exactly the same experience as myself. It's about seeing beyond your own experiences and putting yourself in someone elses shoes. There may and probably are people over the age of 25 who find themselves out of their depth due to a lack of life experience.

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Francesca2 replied on 20 May 2009 9:49 PM

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The local authority I have spent a couple of weeks with seem to have a clear policy of employing very young social workers. There was only a couple of older workers and the rest were all young and single. One of them told me that she thinks it is because they are willing to work such long hours and don't need to take time off for childcare responsibilities. Just saying what I saw and heard!

As for the students at my uni, the two most impressive students I have known over the time were both 18 when we started, and I admit I was surprised and a bit concerned when we began the course - but they are fabulous.

I feel too old at 45 to have any chance of getting a job in this area. I didn't even get an interview with the authority who like them young! 

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CSJ replied on 20 May 2009 11:50 PM

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I qualified at 23, my only experience in Children and Families social work was from my two DipSW placements. There is no doubt that looking back that I was young and inexperienced going into my first qualified social work post. However, I had a massive enthusiasm and committment for the job which I believe helped me through, as well as having a strong manager who was able to give me very clear guidance in my developing practice. I am now 31 and working as a Team Manager in Duty and Assessment, and am again in a position of being quite young to be in this role compared to many managers. I think that a person's age should not be the defining factor whether older or younger in Social Work practice or training. I think rather it is the individual's character, outlook, approach and ability that should be considered as most important.

Further more, I would add that experience whether life experience or social work experience is not always the key in becoming a good practitioner, as I have interviewed a number of workers with years of qualified experience who still do not seem to have the knowledge and insight into their work and its complexities. I think it falls to universities to ensure the quality of the candidates they accept for training through thorough entry interviews and requirements, and those that they allow to qualify through solid evidence of good quality academic and practice based learning. This is the answer to producing good quality practitioners, not placing age limits on training.