Than again maybe it does not: socialworkersunion.co.ukPS: Always seems odd to me how BASW uses .co.uk UK Company domain names aimed a profit based entities, then again maybe not. basw.co.uk
What was the result of the ballot, or hasn't it happened yet?
"We do not intend to ballot for industrial action at present and therefore our members will not be officially on strike on November 30th."
Just seen that on their website. Why are they not taking part in this industrial action?
Selks: "We do not intend to ballot for industrial action at present and therefore our members will not be officially on strike on November 30th." Just seen that on their website. Why are they not taking part in this industrial action?
Wunch of bankers springs to mind.
Actually, after complete indifference to the posturings of BASW et al in recent months I am feeling increasingly angry now that they are not even going to ballot for striking.
Can anyone explain why they are not??
Otherwise I'm just left with a feeling of "Who the hell do they think they are" and even further disenfranchised from them.
<<seething>>
It's up to their members if they wish to object.
Obviously Rupert; but that doesn't preclude other people questioning it.
Given the number that have signed up to the Union, distributed evenly (?or not) across the country, a majority strike vote out of a 60 % turnout would be pretty low numbers.
Then do you think those that voter " no" would feel compelled to go along with the majority?
And if ( as is not unlikely) you were the only BASW Union member in your workplace, and you go out on strike...what power would BASW have to defend you if your employer ( who probably hasn't recognised this Union) takes action against you?
Of course, if that happened, all the unions (esp Unison) would unite and back BASW on the principle wouldn't they
Of course not!
I think BASW did not think through the consequences of taking up the Union role, and were only seeing the desperate need to protect their Advice and Representation service. In the event that the college did go on without them and that was one of their biggest selling points, and not being allowed in would have been very harmful.
The irony is, that if they hadn't taken on Union status, their ability to survive outside the college would have been seriously impaired, but having formed a Union, that is now being used as the reason for not allowing them to merge ( and of course, Hiltons ill-timed and ill-judged, and largely irrelevant personal TUPE claim, which was never going to get him the CEOs job anyway)
Having said that, if The College actually had actually expected BASW to merge, their Union status would not have been a threat because the need for its existence would have be negated in the new college articles, as the Unison connection would have given the A&R service access, especially if it was linked to the side of the business that provided those services.
Even if it wasn't free Unison membership versus free tiny ex BASW union membership both available within the college..? No contest!
So BASW forming a Union was only a threat to the College if the College had no intention of ever letting BASW in, and were hoping to asset-strip it of its members without having to negotiate, or include any of the BASW staff at all ( lets forget Hilton for now ...please!!)
Allan Bowman was always looking for an excuse to justify ditching BASW, and as long as he was running the show BASW was never going to be allowed in.
Listen to the Select committee evidence again, Maurice Bates is his puppy!( couldn't even describe in any practical terms what the college would do!!) At the end of the session, Maurice said he would re-open negotiations with BASW again, and Bowman said he wouldn't. So what happens? Bowmans word rules, even though he is only supposed to be an advisor and the Chairs are supposed to run the College.
Unfortunately, I can understand why BASW have made the decision not to ballot for strike only five months into the beginning of Union operations, and with only just over a thousand members.
It's not great PR-wise, but the potential consequences of going ahead to ballot and acting like the "big boys" would be far more devastating and humiliating.
They are now between a rock and a hard place with this Union business, absolutely needing the status for A&R (and they do do an excellent job on that, which was why they were getting forced out) but unable to compete or operate effectively on Terms and Conditions issues or industrial action.
However, all of that, in my opinion, does not amount to bad faith, deception and lack of integrity on BASWs part as Bowman cited. It amounts to a certain niaevity and inexperience, and lack of awareness.Perhaps even incompetence in an area of business that they have never been in before, and probably wouln't be expected to be in again, no matter what the final outcome.
Its a real shame that BASW actually exists, because all the attacking and sniping at them is a distraction from a college structure and hegemony that none of us would be supporting if that distraction wasn't there.
We are making our bed and we will have nowhere else to lie soon!
I joined the BASW union a few weeks back, and when I say joined I mean I saw the sign up box on the website and thought 'what the heck, its free'.
When the Nov 30th strike came up, as a non-Unison member, I was considering wether I would strike anyway as an independent to show solidarity with my colleagues when I remembered my BASW unioin membership. Now having looked at the information from my employer it seems I could be striking ILEAGALLY if I went on a strike which my union is not on. Whereas if I had been non-union affiliated I could still have striked legally.
Curse you BASW and your free pretend Union.
Silver Sage: Its a real shame that BASW actually exists, because all the attacking and sniping at them is a distraction from a college structure and hegemony that none of us would be supporting if that distraction wasn't there.
Its a real shame that The College of Social Work (TCSW) actually exists, because all the attacking and sniping by BASW is a distraction...
If a Social Workers Union member strikes, they will have no Union support and will in effect be absent from work without legal protection and the employer could seek sanctions above and beyond loss of pay... Though if they chose to join UNISON they can strike, though joining UNISON requires more than clicking a no cost web opt-in button and involves cash.
JoSoPhine: Silver Sage: Its a real shame that BASW actually exists, because all the attacking and sniping at them is a distraction from a college structure and hegemony that none of us would be supporting if that distraction wasn't there. Its a real shame that The College of Social Work (TCSW) actually exists, because all the attacking and sniping by BASW is a distraction... .
.
Ok, so lets not be distracted by BASW and Josophine, could you please put that fine mind of yours to highlighting and doggedly campaigning agaist what is wrong with the College?
Lets face it, the College is going ahead no matter what and it is surely more important to campaign for that to be done properly and with integrity, than to waste your time on BASW which you plainly see as a spent force with no worth. Or is your real agenda to be able to dance on the grave of BASW and you have no concern for the future of Social Work?
Why does the totality of your effort continue to be in that direction, when it is clear that the balance of power and highest threat has radically shifted over to the College?
Your "unbiased" mantle is slipping again.
What is a social workers union for if it is unable to take industrial action? Obviously it will have other functions but that is a key one surely, and would leave it without any power in an industrial conflict situation. Or maybe that is not the function of a social workers' union. I am wondering what the function is.
Selks: What is a social workers union for if it is unable to take industrial action? Obviously it will have other functions but that is a key one surely, and would leave it without any power in an industrial conflict situation. Or maybe that is not the function of a social workers' union. I am wondering what the function is.
As stated previously; BASW took union status because councls were starting torefuse access to their Advice and Representation Officers ( due to successfully defending Social Workers against their employers)
Only a Trade Union has a legal right to attend these hearings and represent people despite the Local Authorities good practice conventions.
Therefore the purpose for BASW is to guarantee the representation of its members on professional conduct issues.
However they still say they aspire to be a fully functioning Union but which comes first, the members or the ability to function?
Unions reject council's latest peace offerhttp://www.communitycare.co.uk/Articles/22/11/2011/117806/unions-reject-councils-latest-peace-offer.htmPS: I make no claims of being unbiased or neutral in connection with any organisation that has been in existence for 41 years, especially when comparing it to an organisation that will not be member led til late 2012. Come back to me in 41 years on the amtter of bias and neutrality.
So its true then JoSoPhine...you can't look at the new college in isolation on its own merits, you are only obsessed with using this as an excuse for throwing as much guano at BASW as you can.
Fair enough....I think others will be able to see that from your last reply even if you can't, and that is what matters.
Hasta la vista bay bee!
Silver Sage: So its true then JoSoPhine...you can't look at the new college in isolation on its own merits, you are only obsessed with using this as an excuse for throwing as much guano at BASW as you can. Fair enough....I think others will be able to see that from your last reply even if you can't, and that is what matters. Hasta la vista bay bee!
Silver Sage: What do you consider this actually means:
"I make no claims of being unbiased or neutral ...."
I am merely following the true tenets of the BASW Code of Ethics.
And you have no bias either way 'Silver Sage'?
Rupert M: And you have no bias either way 'Silver Sage'?
True, I have said some quite disparaging things about Hilton and the naivety and relative competancy of BASW....thought that was just being balanced though, not biased against them?
Thats a bit like saying whoever a recruitment panel finally decides is the the best person on the day ( though they all had their weak points) the panel must have been biased towards them.
I am really having trouble getting across the point that if BASW wasn't ther; if the College was the only show on earth; would we be happy with the set up and carve up of the power and control of Social Work that they are potentially systemically building into the structure.
But every time I try to get people to look at thatour friend JoSoPhine come up with " Yeah but BASW picks its nose and eats worms".....I don't care! maybe they do.....but you are going to end up with this college imposed on you and backed and promoted by the government and Unison. You have the option to ignore and marginalise BASW like you have done for the last 40 years if that is your choice.
Wake up and smell the........(insert appropriate word)
The College will fail if sufficient Members do not join it - if it isn't what they want then it will end very speedily.
Only a Ballot of members can ensure the voice of any Union (members) can be heard, is a Union with an ideology against industrial action led by it's members or a BASW led non long arm hegemony?
Keywords: 'Strike'http://www.communitycare.co.uk/SearchServices/Search.aspx?searchType=site&Content=site&sKeywords=strike
'Industrial Action'http://www.communitycare.co.uk/SearchServices/Search.aspx?searchType=site&Content=site&sKeywords=industrial+action
Carespace:
Striking on the 30thhttp://www.communitycare.co.uk/carespace/forums/striking-on-the-30th-12164.aspxDilemma regards the UNISON strike on 30/11 - Advice very much neededhttp://www.communitycare.co.uk/carespace/forums/dilemma-regards-the-unison-strike-on-30-11--12184.aspx
Social Work Action Network:
Social Workers Strike against austerityhttp://socialworkfuture.org/attachments/article/159/SWAN_newsletter_4_autumn2011.pdf
All Unions always make contingencies for the kinds of emergency provision identified by Hilton, as mentioned before, such emergency/out of hours skeleton services exists at weekends and outside 9 to 5 when most state social workers do not work. BASW's SWU seems coy in this situation, in that it has not formally published it's reasons for not calling a Ballot for Nov 30th industrial action. Israel's Social Workers Union members aka Social Workers went on strike for 23 days.
Southampton social workers extend strike action http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-14389379Council's social workers vote to strikehttp://www.communitycare.co.uk/Articles/16/09/2011/117466/councils-social-workers-vote-to-strike.htmSocial workers join strike action in Northern Ireland todayhttp://www.communitycare.co.uk/Articles/05/10/2011/117554/social-workers-join-strike-action-in-northern-ireland-today.htmEmergency workers' strike 'won't affect essential services'http://www.iol.co.za/the-star/emergency-workers-strike-won-t-affect-essential-services-1.1135331
Social Worker Strike in Israel Brings to Fore Systemic Issues in Social Service Sectorhttp://ejewishphilanthropy.com/social-worker-strike-in-israel-brings-to-fore-systemic-issues-in-social-service-sector/
Israeli social workers demonstrate in last-ditch attempt to prevent strikeunion's demand for a substantial hike in social workers' wages. http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israeli-social-workers-demonstrate-in-last-ditch-attempt-to-prevent-strike-1.347170
Israeli social workers end strike after 23 days http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israeli-social-workers-end-strike-after-23-days-1.352394
Silver Sage: .....but you are going to end up with this college imposed on you and backed and promoted by the government and Unison.
.....but you are going to end up with this college imposed on you and backed and promoted by the government and Unison.
And I suppose if BASW had merged with The College (TCSW) the difference would have been?
Hilton - "SWU Executive considered all this carefully back in September and communicated it to our members. As an independent trade union with a membership at the moment made up exclusively of social workers they took the position that this particular battle on this particular day is not one for us - but that we wish our colleagues well."
Well this says all I need to know about the SWU executive. THEY decided that striking was not a good idea. No balloting of members or anything. Nuff said.
Selks: Well this says all I need to know about the SWU executive. THEY decided that striking was not a good idea. No balloting of members or anything. Nuff said.
It transpires that the SWU has not even applied to affiliate with the TUC. http://www.communitycare.co.uk/carespace/forums/the-social-workers-union-and-the-tuc-12212.aspx
Maybe a Union that wants to compete with other Unions for recognition and a love-in relationship with employers, just needs to offer them an 'executive' no balloting of members no-strike doctrinaire agreement.
Mr Dawson, unlike you, we who are dependent on employers who might use our contributions to victimise us need to be anonymous, after all if we are sacked we do not have the option of being TUPE'd into another well paid job. Nice to know that as the champion of social workers, you are not averse to the using the same tactics as our employers to blackmail us with guilt over daring to strike. On your logic we can never take any action because our absences will always affect service users as well as our employers.
On this basis when do you think social workers could ever strike?
Illogic seems to infect your argument at all levels. Please tell this dim social worker how your members can "respect" picket lines but still be at work to do "social work"? I think we call crossing picket lines scabbing as trade unionists. There is nothing social about selfishly undermining the common will of your colleagues. Can it really be the case that as a “professional” body BASW members show solidarity with cleaners and the lower paid public sector workers by getting paid for the day and then derive benefit from any gain the day of action may bring without having endured any pain? Is this the self-defined famous BASW “integrity” we always get chucked at us? Some of us might prefer to call that selfish as well as brown nosing to the employer. How is it democratic and transparent for you to make a decision in a committee and justify that as a principled decision? If BASW is a member led organisation as you keep telling us why did you not have the confidence in your members to consult them? In my world that passess as a dictate. Is it any wonder that some of us have no confidence in BASW to represent our interests and even less in joining and paying subs to a bunch of executives who seem to believe they know what is best for us rather than asking us our opinions?
Hilton:What a lot of nonsense. If there is a single trade unionist reading this you might consider the impact on the important day of action on November 30th when a child goes unprotected, an older person neglected, someone with an acute mental health problem is denied support. Going on strike, even for one day is a tactic not an end in itself. As the ultimate weapon of any trade union it is best used where it has the most impact on the powerful not on the powerless with whom we make a common cause. As the most radical profession social workers have the opportunity to act in hundreds of ways alongside the people we serve to stand up for public services and to demonstrate the importance of public servants. However next Wednesday the cause will be best served by those who collect the Council Tax, manage the key systems, keep the fancy offices in the Town Halls clean etc rather than those who might just spot a bruise on a child. SWU Executive considered all this carefully back in September and communicated it to our members. As an independent trade union with a membership at the moment made up exclusively of social workers they took the position that this particular battle on this particular day is not one for us - but that we wish our colleagues well. Social work is hardly likely to maximise the impact of next Wednesday's action but it could prevent the enemies of the trade union movement finding ways to undermine it. That's why we've advised our members to support the actions of colleagues by respecting picket lines but by recognising that on this day our best contribution is to carry on doing social work. As for adverse comments made by anonymous people - well as I've said before - use your social work skills and work out what's going on. Yours Hilton
"alongside the people we serve" Utter patronising crap.
" we wish our colleagues well" Positive action?
"Social work is hardly likely to maximise the impact of next Wednesday's action but it could prevent the enemies of the trade union movement finding ways to undermine it." Looking for a place in the cabinet ?
"That's why we've advised our members to support the actions of colleagues by respecting picket lines but by recognising that on this day our best contribution is to carry on doing social work". Who the F*** do you think you are?
'lovecats' - please try to grasp that BASW is NOT a Trade Union but a Professional Association of some 14000+ members.
The SWU is a Trade Union made up of a minority (1000ish) of BASW members.
Dim though I am, nice try Rupert M. Look forward to many more contortions in trying to justify the unjustifiable by current and former BASW members, unionised or otherwise. {By the way you may have noticed that it’s Mr Dawson who keeps banging on about the status of his SWU, I have no interest in the shenanigans}
hilton- what scenario could possibly arise with a service user that cannot be dealt with in an immediate way by other services?
Rupert M: 'lovecats' - please try to grasp that BASW is NOT a Trade Union but a Professional Association of some 14000+ members. The SWU is a Trade Union made up of a minority (1000ish) of BASW members.
SWU is completely virtual, who are it's paid staff, how is it funded? Can the 90% of BASW members who have not merely clicked the no cost join SWU web button get a discount in their BASW fees?
I take the view that any Union(s) needs to be a completely separate entity to any Professional Association/College, though perfectly OK to collaborate.
"Hilton is committed to internationalism, he has lived and worked in Israel"
@Hilton
How would have you convinced the Israeli Social Workers Union not to go on strike for 23 days?
"at the moment made up exclusively of social workers"
Does the SWU plan to expand it's virtual services to non Social Workers?
How many contingency plans has BASW (executive) got in the eventuality that it would have merged with The College of Social Work (TCSW), would this have involved offering social workers (and others) Advice and Representation and Insurance services under it's SWU virtual entity?
You are talking through your hole. That is a load of self serving twaddle, and highly mendacious.
Maybe the monkeys at the typewriters have a point.
Another highly considered and analytical response from 'Long Gone' - it must have taken ages to think that one out and make it pertinent to such a professional Forum!
Professional?
I've seen your oeuvre.
Long Gone: Maybe the monkeys at the typewriters have a point.
Was the treatise 'Origin of the Species' written on a typewriter?
Hmmmm whilst there are sentiments in the above that ring true. The above reminded me of everything that Social should not be as in my opinion it passively secretes the embiotic fluid of conservative ideology. Social Work appears to be a weak profession with no political teeth of its own. The BASW and the proposed College will only serve to further kiss the behinds of this Government and those yet to come.
As soon as the Condem assasins waltzed into number 10 (Without majority) and announced their intentions to slice and dice. Social Workers, including the supposed BASW Union should have come out on strike before any of the other unions even cocked their head above any turret. It is our moral duty. I say this because the duty of Social Workers is surely to advocate and represent on behalf of those who are served injustice and being abused. Or perhaps as Lipsky's theory suggests, we are only here to serve the powerful in helping to placate citizens (STREET LEVEL BEAUROCRATS)... How can we simply stand by; with a level of insight into what is about to happen to our resemblence of a society and not strike....this goes well beyond pension reform, it is about morals and injustice THE VERY CORE DRIVE OF SOCIAL WORK PROFESSION........................KANT, BIESTECK, CODES OF PRACTICE...... WAKE UP AND BE COUNTED.
My view is that Social Work has missed a golden chance to raise its profile to the people who count I.e. Service Users...at the first instance and collectively, the lick ass power brokers in BASW and the College should have got together and organised mass protest of all Social Workers and Care Staff in anger at all the savage cuts. If this means missing a few targets and deadlines, then so be it. The cuts and injustices that are likely to be expereinced by many vulnerable Children and Adults should have been pounced on and challenged by all Social Workers and voices raised en masse. It is after all us frontline staff who hold no power yet we deliver the news and interact daily with service users and their families.
Proud Hon - there are quite strict union laws about what strikes can be called for and so it would be illegal to call a strike about the savage cuts in general.
As for me, while the headline issue is pensions, there is so much more to be angry about but tight legislation means that we are limited in terms of what we can strike about.
I know this because I was thinking along your lines and am equally angry and made inquiries!
Louise Mensch said on the Today programme that workers are striking over an improved pension offer.
We know she is referring to an improvement on a reduction but not everyone does.
Strike waverers, why does your blood not boil when you see such total dishonesty.
Just as with the State Retirement Pension we are generally living far longer and therefore in order to finance pensions long-term we either settle for less or pay more - I believe that it is called economics.
Rupert M: Just as with the State Retirement Pension we are generally living far longer and therefore in order to finance pensions long-term we either settle for less or pay more - I believe that it is called economics.