Wouldn't psychotherapy be a safer alternative?
Shirack: Wouldn't psychotherapy be a safer alternative?
Psychotherapy is much too expensive.....but if you take the long view, cheaper in the long run as the breast implant patient will no doubt be back for further 'treatment'.
Some terrorists give a warning so that we can clear the area before a bomb goes off!
is psychotherapy a safer alternative for what?
having breast implants due to body image issues -? is that what you mean shirack?
sometimes women have breast implants as a part of breast reconstruction as a result of breast cancer / treatment - not just for changing appearance / inflation of breast size.
no doubt there are a number of women affected by the breast implant silicone issue with P.I.P implants, they may be really scared and fearful.
- for some the implants were a part of their recovery after surgery, not a cosmetic choice.
redana: Shirack: Wouldn't psychotherapy be a safer alternative? Psychotherapy is much too expensive.....but if you take the long view, cheaper in the long run as the breast implant patient will no doubt be back for further 'treatment'.
Why should they "no doubt" be back for 'treatment(scare quotes)'?Oh, right, because you have (as indeed Shirack has, gosh what a surprise) assumed it's all vanity and nothing to do with post surgery reconstruction. Unless you also think that e.g. men (or indeed women) whose faces are scarred in accidents should just have psychotherapy and not a rebuilt face? Empathy FAIL.
This is the kind of thing I point to when people say "well, a woman said it so it can't be sexist".
Silver Sage: Shirack: Wouldn't psychotherapy be a safer alternative? Some terrorists give a warning so that we can clear the area before a bomb goes off!
Some people think before they speak, but this is Shirack we are talking about.
Toilagain: redana: Shirack: Wouldn't psychotherapy be a safer alternative? Psychotherapy is much too expensive.....but if you take the long view, cheaper in the long run as the breast implant patient will no doubt be back for further 'treatment'. Why should they "no doubt" be back for 'treatment(scare quotes)'?Oh, right, because you have (as indeed Shirack has, gosh what a surprise) assumed it's all vanity and nothing to do with post surgery reconstruction. Unless you also think that e.g. men (or indeed women) whose faces are scarred in accidents should just have psychotherapy and not a rebuilt face? Empathy FAIL. This is the kind of thing I point to when people say "well, a woman said it so it can't be sexist".
Haven't made an assumption...I would agree that there's a difference between addressing disfigurement and cosmetic surgery for poor self image and self esteem issues.......but I would argue that latter is a growing problem. How else do you explain the rising demand in the need for 'designer vaginas' etc? Business for the cosmetic plastic surgeons is booming.
Toilagain: Silver Sage: Shirack: Wouldn't psychotherapy be a safer alternative? Some terrorists give a warning so that we can clear the area before a bomb goes off! Some people think before they speak, but this is Shirack we are talking about.
What, you're perfectly fine with Silver Sage's comment are you??
We live in a cosmetic surgery era. You only see it as a problem... why is it a problem? Because it goes against what you believe. Psychotherapy could help in a lot of cases I am sure, but actually some people just want great big boobs. Who cares?! Why should we judge on that. However, if it is due to poor body image, then I do think more should be done, but if an adult chooses surgery... that is their choice.
i tend to agree that there should be choices for people , and like you say there are and always will be people who want "great big boobs" ,
i also think that the subject is very complex , and noone should make assumptions about others body image/ need for surgery as unless we have the facts you really dont know and shouldnt judge.
some would argue that any physical change we make in our appearance - eg. hair dye , piercing , make up are signs of poor body image??
by the way i dye my hair, wear make up and have pierced ears !! might i be disguising a true self loathing or just making an effort to feel the best i can ,
because i can!
Don't care about the rightness or wrongness of it, people can spend their money how they choose; but my judgemental view, based on my initial comment is that when they have the enormous chest that they think will bring them happiness, they will feel happy for a minute..........
then they will want the perfect nose,
then the perfect pout etc etc.
Like putting a sticking plaster on the emotional problem, rather than finding out what could make them really happy.
redana: Don't care about the rightness or wrongness of it, people can spend their money how they choose; but my judgemental view, based on my initial comment is that when they have the enormous chest that they think will bring them happiness, they will feel happy for a minute.......... then they will want the perfect nose, then the perfect pout etc etc. Like putting a sticking plaster on the emotional problem, rather than finding out what could make them really happy.
If only there was surgery which made one's opinions perfect! Oh hang on....the psychotherapy must have worked...we are convinced the ones we have are perfect!!
suesy q: is psychotherapy a safer alternative for what? having breast implants due to body image issues -? is that what you mean shirack? sometimes women have breast implants as a part of breast reconstruction as a result of breast cancer / treatment - not just for changing appearance / inflation of breast size. no doubt there are a number of women affected by the breast implant silicone issue with P.I.P implants, they may be really scared and fearful. - for some the implants were a part of their recovery after surgery, not a cosmetic choice.
But surely the women who are doing it after a post op are doing it for cosmetic reasons as well? Not that is a problem - just there seems to be a differentiating of people as being more deserving of surgery and I dont see that as being the case.
As an aside I have 3 friends who have had breast elargements who have never had anything else done - on the flipside I know someone who spent a £ 50k inheritance largely on plastic surgery -clearly insecure etc etc but shes certainly happier than she was.....
And since when have you advocated therapy shirack?
I think Shirack was just bored and wanted to kick over the ant's nest for entertainment.
i dont think that anyone is more deserving than another to have surgery - however i think that for me it seems a more obvious need to want reconstructive surgery after masectomy/ partial masectomy , again its a very personal choice , it was my choice.
Silver Sage: I think Shirack was just bored and wanted to kick over the ant's nest for entertainment.
I was getting at the tats, piercings, make up, combover mentalities, who never cease to fascinate me. I think it started when Billy Connolly first mentioned how he wanted to appear windswept and interesting, I just asked myself; Why?
If we needed this stuff we would all have peacocks tails to attract mates, because that is what it is really about, ........................................ isn't it?
I am not against any of it (Who cares if I was) I just see it as futile and wonder how it fits with workers who should have superior minds.
I have never had a decent explanation. The usual one is "It makes me feel better". Well, simple remedy for that is don't look in the mirror and save yourself a fortune in Bluewater.
suesy q: i dont think that anyone is more deserving than another to have surgery - however i think that for me it seems a more obvious need to want reconstructive surgery after masectomy/ partial masectomy , again its a very personal choice , it was my choice.
ah no worries - your post definitely reads like that but cheers for clearing it up
In seriousness though (I may regret this) as long as people treat you differently according to how you look, there is a reason that changing your looks may make life easier.
A relative of mine is a senior manager in a Hospital ( degree qualified Nurse.) She is about five foot one inch tall and started getting less bullying and more respect (though not "love") when she started to put an a lot of weight as a teenager. She eventually weighed in at about 19 stone and consultant surgeons give her respect and take direction.She then went on a medically controlled diet and over two years dropped down to about ten and a half stone. People talked across her at meetings and she had to work twice as hard and twice as loud to get people to allow her space to talk.She found that when she implemented changes in procedures, staff were not as concerned about following them, or being challenged for not doing so.
She has now relinquished the diet and the insurance actuaries for the Hospital have breathed a sigh of relief.
OK you can argue that may be about other associated factors and can't be directly and exclusively attributed to appearance.
But why is it that we haven't had a bald prime minister since I can remember ( Kinnoch, IDS and William Hague couldn't compete with the luxuriant locks of Blair and Major, Cameron and Clegg) and given that male pattern baldness affects 70% of men by the age of 40, the current party "heads" are not representative. Only Alec Salmond an exceptional example working against my theory of looks being more important than talent. A vote for Milliband...is a vote for hair!
Apparently in USA the tallest of the two candidates has always won the presidential elections, supporting the theory that the subconscious mind associates size with authority and capability and right to be in charge.
Personally I find people make room for me more willingly as I walk through a crowded shopping Mall, if I have my hoodie up, my scarf across my face and my shades on...whats that about?. Maybe they mistake me for Snoopy otherwise?
So bottom line is, the concern about looks isn't only, or even primarily, in the mind of the person wanting to change their appearance....its in the minds of the people looking..whether they realise it or not.
So I wouldn't condemn anyone who feels they need to have cosmetic alterations, but I don't think I would do it myself...never say never!
Silver Sage: In seriousness though (I may regret this) as long as people treat you differently according to how you look, there is a reason that changing your looks may make life easier. A relative of mine is a senior manager in a Hospital ( degree qualified Nurse.) She is about five foot one inch tall and started getting less bullying and more respect (though not "love") when she started to put an a lot of weight as a teenager. She eventually weighed in at about 19 stone and consultant surgeons give her respect and take direction.She then went on a medically controlled diet and over two years dropped down to about ten and a half stone. People talked across her at meetings and she had to work twice as hard and twice as loud to get people to allow her space to talk.She found that when she implemented changes in procedures, staff were not as concerned about following them, or being challenged for not doing so. She has now relinquished the diet and the insurance actuaries for the Hospital have breathed a sigh of relief. OK you can argue that may be about other associated factors and can't be directly and exclusively attributed to appearance. But why is it that we haven't had a bald prime minister since I can remember ( Kinnoch, IDS and William Hague couldn't compete with the luxuriant locks of Blair and Major, Cameron and Clegg) and given that male pattern baldness affects 70% of men by the age of 40, the current party "heads" are not representative. Only Alec Salmond an exceptional example working against my theory of looks being more important than talent. A vote for Milliband...is a vote for hair! Apparently in USA the tallest of the two candidates has always won the presidential elections, supporting the theory that the subconscious mind associates size with authority and capability and right to be in charge. Personally I find people make room for me more willingly as I walk through a crowded shopping Mall, if I have my hoodie up, my scarf across my face and my shades on...whats that about?. Maybe they mistake me for Snoopy otherwise? So bottom line is, the concern about looks isn't only, or even primarily, in the mind of the person wanting to change their appearance....its in the minds of the people looking..whether they realise it or not. So I wouldn't condemn anyone who feels they need to have cosmetic alterations, but I don't think I would do it myself...never say never!
excellent post silver sage - Ive long held that the way you look - whether you are judged attractticve or unattractive to societies standards is the main determinant for whether you are are treated favourably - rather than whether you are specifically black etc
your brain is a muscle that can be altered to make you more successful - same thing applies to appearance
its one of the main problems with socialism - needs are every where and there no hope whatsoever of giving people an equal chance because as soon as you meet one need another develops or becomes recognised
Sad fact is I agree with SS and Romeo. More about the receiver than the giver.
really bizarrely Ive just read an article in the times or maybe guardian that says "lookism" is a huge factor in career opportunities and success - apparently responsible for a similar pay gap to being black ( I knew I was right! lol)
also read a while ago that a study has shown men who are seen as being overly thin suffer material consequences over their earnings in a lifetime of 10s of thousands of pounds (as in they are not real men etc etc)
Any one fancy setting up a social work agency serving ugly people?
sorry we have just determined that they need surgery not social work
And who would judge?
DWP state must now be undertake and attractiveness defeciency assessment medical every three months in order to continue to qualify for their benefits
Wonder if 'Shirack' has had any trouble with his!!!!!!!!!!!!
I passed mine but then they offered me a job in a yoghourt factory curdling milk! If I refuse it I am intentionally unemployed...Dilemma!!!