I am a 2nd year mature student (I still have 2 of my 4 children in school). I began my first 100 day placement the 2nd week of January. Until 2 weeks ago we were in Uni for at least 1 day a week and some weeks 2 days a week - we are running 5 units with 5 lots of assignments to acompany them! I have just completed 2 weeks doing an IPL placement (Inter Professional Learning) at a local hospital. My placement did not have any induction strategies/plans. I was supposed to contact other agencies myself and arrange shadowing/induction. I could not get my computer to work so ended up trying to find a telephone number for IT. This was my first day - no one showed me where the toilet was or where I could make a drink!! Admittedly they are a quick turnover hospital team - but they had known about me coming for a while. This first impression has just escalated into the worst experience of my life. I would just like to point out that I have been working within the NHS for over 20 years so I do have some idea of communication - interprofessional working - team working professional competence, ADP, AOP and how to listen. Right now I have been summonds to yet another meeting to discuss the fact that I am not making satisfactory progress. I have been confronted by one of the senior pracs. in front of everyone demanding where I was going (group supervision), had I done this that when I meekly replied yes she retorted you can go now! My supervisor then took the same non professional approach and in front of everyone said 'I get the impression that you don't like coming here and that you do not want to be a social worker. As she had 'opened' the conversation up to the floor I just said my piece - in an anti oppresive non confrontational manner. No I do not like being there! Apparently me having worked on only 6 cases since Jan was not acceptable - I should be holding about 10 -15. Was there a problem with my work? Er know just your so slow! All my asessments have been undertaken alone and have been complicated. I am supposed to know how there in house it system works how to load on assessments and who to contact to provide POC's Should I? Dreading Tuesday just know I am going to be attending a Jeremy Kyle bear baiting session that will result in the termination of the placement therefore the course! That's nearly 2 years of hard work gone - £15,000 in debt and too old to continue with anything else. Any thoughts on this from anyone any ideas. Maybe I am just not suited/clever enough to be a social worker - am confused and sick with worry!
I don't think I can give any specific advice. Have the university and your tutor been any help?
They should be able to monitor placements somewhat. If there is someone there, perhaps a placement co-ordinator from the university or your personal tutor, it might be worth talking things through with them before the meeting.
do you have a good relationship with your tutor or your practice teacher? it is vital you get some support this sounds awful. dont give up this is not right you should be supported better and the learning should be, to a certain extent, at your pace. on my placement i am asked at my fortnightly supervision if i have enough work and if it is not too much. how are you supposed to have time to reflect when you are dealing with all this and this amount of cases? assessments are important and you should feel confident about doing them. This is not a sign of failure on your behalf this a sign you are not being properly supported. i really hope you get this sorted,
best of luck
Hi Lizzer
Thanks for advice and support! Trouble is my practice teacher is a notorious bully! Cannot believe I landed her, a supervisor and senior prac all akin to the Witches of Eastwick!!! Seriously they are setting me up to fail. It's the weekend, got my children and am re living every day so far of my placement since Jan - no good my kids need me especially my youngest who has a serious medical problem and also has Autistic Spectrum Disorder I forgot to say my practice teacher e mailed me last Wed and told me not to return to my placement until meeting on Tues!!! I feel the last supper approaching!!.
everyone should have a tutor at uni who is their support and contact for the course - you must make sure he/she is aware of the email from your placement supervisor and ask the uni tutor to come with you on Tuesday - you should have had a placement meeting at the start of your placement, with your placement supervisor and uni tutor and further mid-placement and end of placement meetings agreed with them - if you do not have anyone with you and your fears are realised, that they want to terminate your placement then ask for the meeting to be adjourned until you have the support of your uni tutor (or at least someone from the uni who can guide you through the complexitities of this kind of situation and knows what questions to ask and is able to challenge and bluffs that come from the placement supervisor) - some placements go sour for all sorts of reasons but unless you have committed a serious breach of professional practice (and I don't mean a mistake because you weren't told procedures, but something that would be in breach of the ethical nature of the Codes of Practice) then you should be entitled to undertake a new placement - I know this is inconvenient because it delays your course and qualification but after two years of study already you really must pursue this option
Good luck
Hi I am a first year mature student and have recently become involved in giving support to a second year student who had the same experience as you. Things got so bad for her that she was signed off sick due to stress. The university offered her no support so she reported her situation to the GSCC who advised her to first make a formal complaint to the university as if she did not follow the correct complaints procedure the GSCC would not be able to get involved if her issues were not addressed. Perhaps you could get your fellow students to show their support by all handing in formal complaints. Have you talked to your student rep? Be carefull about how you tell fellow students about your experiences i.e email, as we have already been threatened by the university that we are breaking data protection laws. Please don't let this stop you as most 2nd year students I have spoken to have had good placement experiences. Hope it all gets sorted out for you.
Good Luck
I underwent stuff like this on my first placement and I was told there was nothing my uni could do except find me another placement; but I would have to leave the placement first which is better than letting them fail you. The bullying I suffered was the for the slightest reason. My manager was the worse and he said some things to me which, given the cirumstances, were verging on insanity. I was told by my highly experienced long arm tutor that a decision had to be made by me whether to walk out in which case I had not failed the placement, or persevere to the end of the placement hoping I would not be failed.
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Hi,
Things have finally been sorted! However I was advised by the uni that the placement had the power to fail me therefore it was better to back down, persevere or wait for another placement (easier said than done, as we are all aware). I was subjected to 4 hours of grilling and personal and professional attacks at a 5 way meeting. I had decided the day before to try and gather feedback from the areas that I had undertaken assessments. Funny that the feedback I obtained (and had e mailed to me) was so very positive - yet the placement had apparently obtained such negative feedback that was enough to cease the placement and therefore there was a reallity that I would be asked to leave the course! Thank goodness for my fantastic, supportive tutor ( who always believed in me). I also managed to win round my notoriously tricky PT! I am learning to play the game - fast! The WBS and one of the senior pracs came to the meeting. WBS was scathing saying I lacked honesty and openess, was lazy and lacking in confidence in all basic aspects! I amazed myself and batted the whole lot back on to her - but oh so very nicely. She visably squirmed! Eventually they decided that they were such a busy environment and had 3 staff members leave in as many weeks (?) that they could not support having a student. Afterwards my tutor and I went for a coffee. He said he was so impressed how I handled myself and what he witnessed was a professional in action! He had one criticisim, and that was I took too much flack from WBS & co. It was not worth the effort in fighting them back, I just made them look stupid in the end. My tutor was astounded at their behaviour and had begun to really appreciate what I have been subjected to for nearly 14 weeks. The whole expereience has really damaged my confidence, self esteem is rock bottom and I am exhausted and quite frankly very low mentally. This type of behaviour really needs to be stamped out in social work - it is still endemic. Why? The new degree course informs us regarding empowerment, diversity, anti-oppressive , anti-discriminitive, non-hierarchal, collaborative practice. My WBS only graduated fron the same uni I did 2 years ago, but has been immersed in the bureacratic organisational culture - she has become one of them! Things must change. Update....I am starting new placement next week. Have met with them yesterday. Wow what a difference - mind you not entirely a stat agency. Realistic lovely people. Qualified many many years ago but passionate about personalisation, normalisation and have grounded values and ethics! Question for everybody is the degree breeding contemporary practitoners committed to BASW code of ethics?
how awful for you
i was bullied on my 3ryear placement , but fortunately i had another student with me, who was also bullied, so we got through it together. it was a truly awful experience and very nearly put me off social work for life.
myself and my fellow student reported the bullying to the university and to to team manager. instead of addressing it directly with the bullies, the manager told everyone in a team meeting that they would be having no more students as this was unacceptable, nothing more nothing less was said about the incident
university advised to keep our heads down and get through it (utterly demoralising advise) which we had not choice but to do, we used to go home each night and cry!
and guess what? the following year more students followed in our footsteps to have yet another horrendous experience on placement
no surprises there then jelly_tot - these practice placements exist and continue to exist but fortunately they are in the minority, although that's no consolation to anyone who has suffered in one
to make matters worse, like bettyboop is experiencing, one of the bullies was my practice teacher, who was totally incompetent as a SW let alone a practice teacher, for eg, one day she told me (not asked) me to do something and when I questioned her and asked her to explain why she wanted me to do it and the answer I got was 'BECAUSE I'M TELLING YOU TO DO IT'
in supervision, I was the one who was telling her about the theories and filling in the competency sheets, as she was totally clueless
I was totally let down by the whole situation
Which is probably the reason as to why I didn't go into adult services (placement was a stat adults placement)
Its awful to think that students are still experiencing this horrendous experience and sadly probably will for years to come
I hate bullies!
When I was on a certain placement one person suggested to me that in time I should consider becoming a practice teacher as having had a bad experience on placement I could use that experience as a basis for making sure I never caused such anguish. I never did but it's just a thought.
Did you never fancy being a practice teacher?
Not sure if i want to be one, but it's early days in my career yet
Sometimes. I just don't want to be a part of a system I don't like.
This sounds so familiar!!
I too am a mature 2nd year student, i started my placement in January and decided to leave 4wks later because my practice teacher was capable of ruining my future career. My experience was a nightmare and has left me feeling so disempowered and very disappointed. What has shocked me by this experience is how a professional social worker can misuse her power and be dishonest. During a review meeting (bear baiting session) my concerns were dismissed and her views (lies) were noted which just re-enforced her power. I cannot believe that a profession based on values and anti-oppressive practice allows this to happen. I have requested a second opinion and hopefully an independent person will listen to my concerns and look at the evidence and restore my faith in social work.
All the best for the future and lets hope that we get better luck next time
K
Hi J,
This sounds like my practice teacher who i left after 4wks. Which means my course will now take 4yrs as i cannot have another placement until next Jan [:'(]
Oh My Goodness, reading your expereince only reminds me of what I went through last semester.
I too had a bully for a practice teacher who loved the power that she had over me, and used it everyday as a stick to beat me with. I ended up in tears to my fiance everynight and felt physically sick every morning before I went to placement. Just like you I felt really out of my depth, and considered giving up. I was made to feel like I was not suitable for social work and was not clever enough or had the skills to continue.
I spoke to my studies adviser at university about it who was a great support. The university voided my placement and I am now going out again on placement over the summer.
You need to take this experience and reflect on it. What I went through happened last November and it has taken me quite a while to get closure on it and reflect on it properly.
I thought I was to blame and that I was not suitable but when I look back now I see that it was my practice teacher who is not suitable for social work. When I think about how she made me feel, I can now openly empathise with service users who are opressed by society and practitioners similar to my practice teacher. This has made me more determined than ever to succeed in this course and you should feel the same. You have worked too hard and sacrificed too much to give up now.
Appeal the decision and look for the support of your university. Don't give up!!!
Hi JayTee,
Your posting was comforting - by the very fact that maybe its not me! Will be finishing second half of first 100 day placement 17th July. Am counting days. Really am sick to back teeth of PT and now constant supervision (nit picking) by her. Why do I need so much supervision - well because I have experienced so many challenges apparently! Cannot cope with the amount of written work - struggling - mainly because my passion for SW has been totally eroded by THE BULLIES. To be consistantly day by day analysed, critised, assessed is demoralising and effectually disempowering. Yes this is how service users feel as the majority of SW seeming adapt the hierarchal approach. Let's bring back radical social work practice. Must reads - if you have the time - and all potential children and family SW read with caution - Louise Mason- Every Mother's Nightmare
Radical Social Work in Practice (Making a difference) Iain Ferguson & Rona Woodward - pro-active stuff!
Finally the Barefoot Social Worker - my fav site!
Social work needs to shake itself. If service users are really central to every social workers aims and objectives - then SW need to challenge bureaucracy at organisational level. This can only then lead to a domino effect and hopefully be carried forward to the powers that be ie GSCC in my opinion they need a massive wake up call. I wanted a social work degree - to be a social worker the clue to the nature of the job is in the title. I will not be a gatekeeper to resources or a immerse myself in organisational bureacracy at the expense of the very people that I want to work with - rather work at ASDA. Just a little note WHY oh WHY does social work need to be a) so hard
b) so time consuming that you have no life, no time for your children family or friends
c)so critical of every other profession and of students
Why is it normal that marriages and partnerships break up on this course? I feel the course is discriminitive particulary to mature students who envariably have large mortgages and children that require parents! Really annoyed as you can probably tell! Just want to get through 2nd year - might not go back for third.
Not really sure how it is there but I'm a second year student currently on PLO. I would say you have to keep going up until you find someone to listen to you. If your PLO tutor is no help, go to the course director, then the Dean, the the care council for wales, as they finace my course. Also make a complaint through the organisations complaints system. Maybe they can set you up with a new placement but if not dont walk out without a pound of flesh.
"We speak, and the word goes out beyond us, to consequences and ends which we had not conceived of." - Gadamer
i am a practice assessor, firstly, An induction is of paramount importance and all students i work with will undertake one. Secondly, i would be horrified if there was any bullying going on with any worker whether this be a student or qualified. It is not acceptable in this field of work given the "anti discrimatory/anti oppressive practice" nature of the work! Thirdly i would expect the university to take action regarding such behaviour and not accept it due to their fearing losing the place as a placement in future. If i was working with a student and there were issues, a meeting would be called, where placement would have to provide concrete evidence of why the student is failing. If i had any indication that there was a personal vendetta agaisnt a student, there woul dbe an official complaint and the perpetrator would have some explaining to do. I was a student once (although many moons ago) and the course is difficult enough without such behaviour!! Good luck.
Hi Firstly, I'm sorry to hear of your experience. It appears this is incerasingly common amongst social work trainees. So although this is not overly comforting, please do take some small confort in the knowledge that you are not alone. However in saying that, it doesn to make it/their behaviour acceptable.
Even though it may be initially hard, you need to make your views well known. Clearly known to the relevant people. Firstly regarding your supervisor, they need reported to the course director. they have no right to treat you in such manner. They are appointed to such roles for the nurturing qualities towards student on placements. So clearly she/he is failing you in that respect. With regards your senior pracs in placement setting. They also need to be reported to the relevant managers. All to often, workers like to 'throw' thier weight about and hide behind their professional title/status within the workplace. It's wrong and gives a bad impression. For people to reach that level, they should have excellent qualities and a good base of experience behind them. If this is thier attitude towards students, or any member of staff, I would question their suitability to remain within that particular posistion.
So in some respect both these people are LETTING YOU DOWN - not you letting them down. They are not offering the right support. I question everyone that reads this........... is it any surprise that the social work workforce is short staffed and that students drop out of their course when this is their experience of qualified workers - who are meant to KNOW BETTER, and not display such actions. But support students in times of difficultly. Yes I understand that students need to take control of their own learning and make the relevant people aware that they are struggling, but this should be made easier for them, not as difficult as possible as what appears to have happened in the context above for Bettyboop.
These are just my own opinions, and I accpet that every story has a set of circumstances that we as readers of the formum will not know about as we are not in that particular environent. I can only hope that Bettyboop has managed to get the concerns sorted out and that she completes the course successfully. Goodlulck!
Dom
Senior Social Worker.
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Hi Kiera
I hope you don’t mind me e-mailing you but I believe that I am in the same situation that you were re placement.
Basically I terminated my placement due to it not being suitable and after 6 weeks of messing around the board have now ok'd another placement being found for me, but it is looking as though I will not be able to complete it in time to start yr 3 in September.
My question to you is if I am not able to start year 3 in September due to still doing my year two placement, How does this affect my entitlement to student finance?
Any advice you can give would be appreciated and I would also be interested as to how your new placement went.
Thanks
Shaz
Hi Shazbeb, I believe student finance will grant you an extra year if needed.
In response to all the above, I am really concerned. I am on my last placement and it is brilliant. However a large amount of fellow students are having a nightmare with their placements. Several broken down and others are experiencing mental health issues because of the stress. It worries me that so many practice teachers are senior practitioners and in a powerful position. These may be my manager when I'm newly qualified. If they are bullying students, how will they be towards a newly qualified sw?!!
Unfortunately universities are reluctant to pull up bad practice by PT or organisations where students are based because of the shortage of placements available. Therefore students are generally advised to stick it out and put up with it. I sometimes wonder if social work values are a myth?
I had a terrible experience as a final year student in 2000. The practice teacher was an overpowering bully, told me at the 3 way pre-placement meeting what would be expected of me, including evening working (I was a lone parent at the time, the placement was 35 miles from home) and stated that she was disappointed with me as this placement was not my choice of area to work in and she felt passionate about the client group-expected me to as well. I was so oppressed and undermined I became tearful. This was then used against me as not being suited to SW as anyone who was upset by this would clearly not be able to handle the pressures of C&F SW.
The next day a secret meeting took place between the PT and the placement (we would not be allowed to practice in this way with clients) and they decided I was not suitable and withdrew the placement. The university held a meeting with self and PT, but nothing resolved, more mud slinging by PT who had only met me twice and had no idea of my capabilities.
I was left 4 months waiting for a new placement and finished the course late as a result. However, next practice teacher and placement were fantastic, so different! I was valued and respected- these people thought I was great!
Something like this knocks your confidence and you can start to think it's you-but I would say hang in there as you are due a really positive experience.
I always bear this experience in mind when working with others, including students, as I remember how powerless I was. I try to be completely fair and respectful.
I agree
Crispycakes
Isn't this behaviour a breach of the GSCC Code of Practice - has anyone ever thought of making a complaint to the GSCC?
I find it shocking that so many students are getting bullied on their placements. I have seen bullying in my workplace and it’s not nice. The issue I have is with the managements and team’s reluctance to deal with it. It gets ignored or a private word is had. It gets hushed up and forgotten about. I’ve seen nurses accused of bullying and then promoted to management of the team. There needs to be a clearer policy on bullying and these should be discussed in team meetings so that all staff know how to complain should they feel they are being bullied. Of course this should be extended to students, who are particularly vulnerable to bullying.
I find it shocking that so many students are getting bullied on their placements. I have seen bullying in my workplace and it’s not nice. The issue I have is with the managements and team’s reluctance to deal with it. It gets ignored or a private word is had. It gets hushed up and forgotten about. I’ve seen nurses accused of bullying and then promoted to management of the team.
There needs to be a clearer policy on bullying and these should be discussed in team meetings so that all staff know how to complain should they feel they are being bullied. Of course this should be extended to students, who are particularly vulnerable to bullying.
Perhaps its just a warm up exercise for the real world of social work. Bullying can be very open or covert and it seems to me to be going on in one form or another all the time. depends who you are , what position you are in, and how clever you are as to how you deal with it.
iv had it with being asked to stay out unitl all hours..being given caseloads that are not manageable and then accussed of putting children at risk......
Recently I was summoned by mobile while out visiting service users to...attend head office..a unison rep has also been ordered to attend with you...so then you really know your in trouble..It stopped me in my tracks
i had to wait 2 weeks before this meeting and pestered the line manager to ask what this important meeting was about.....
apparently my Grandchildrens parents (no relative of mine) decided to go off on holiday and leave the children in the care of a friend of theirs. they did not return from the holiday because they got arrested going through customs for smuggling drugs. ( I hasten to mention that my son left this young lady when the children were 2 yrs old. they are now 13 yrs old)
I have kept in contact with the children and had sporadic visits to ensure they see their dad now and again. apparently the bottom line was...i was accussed of being ina position where I should have known that these children were being neglected and there fore my integrity was in question as to whether i should have been working with children and families these past 15 yrs.
the social worker on the case seemed to think that telling the young ladies parents, who now have care of the kids, that they should no longer be allowed to stay at my home at weekends and if i called to see them i should be supervised.....BECAUSE IM A SOCIAL WORKER??!! these are the childrens grandparents that are violent drinkers?? and they have given me a pasting several times in the past for protecting their daughter and my son....
the children have not seen me now for 6 months and the social worker hasnt even bothered to speak to me or inform me of any decisions. ..obviously does not want to put misinformation in writing...
having had the meeting the head of department and manager..who obviously got their inmformation from gossip and grapevine.... have decided very kindly not to take action or report me to GSCC....how kind!!! but they used the opportunity to moan about anything else they could think of...When I tried to respond they said i was justifying myself....Apparently one is supposed to sit on ones butt and say nothing while i get get scapegoated...
Im fed up with covert discrimination and bullying...its demotivating..demoralising and depressing...iv had students of mine get progression way in front of me while lsitening to managers telling me not to bother trying to get progression...
Frankly i dont want it now and feel its time for another social worker to go and make space for another unsuspecting student....I daresay if you forewarn students you'll be accussed of being negative...lol
I also had a horrible experience as a first year student in 2003 at University. . The practice teacher telephoned me and informed me I would have to work a 40 hour week including weekends, I advised I had childcare responsibilities and she replied "We assume the father has the children" and i was then forced to say that I was a lone parent. i was so shocked at her remark as she had not considered if i was gay or the father was dead etc. So much for not sterotyping and ADP. All along the placement she was unsupportive and completely awkward at times and I often felt disempowered. She was very rude and had hideous mood swings, one minute she was ok and the next she was virtually shouting. During a placement meeting with two other practice teachers she openly stated to me " We have different opinions as I am a white, middle class Woman" I was so suprised she was allowed to get away with this remark. This made me feel worthless as I thought she must not like me as I was a working class person. I could not challenge her as she would have failed my placement. I spoke to other people at Uni and she had actually said the same thing to a man on the course! Luckly I managed to finish the placement unlike some people on here who havent and I really feel for them.
.
this and many of the other accounts i have read to day are horrendous, but sadly not too unformiliar. I think serous consideration should be given to collating this information and ensuring the relevanat bodies are aware of what is going on. I completed my BA social work 2 years ago, I was fortunate enough to have my final two placements in a statutory setting that was supportive and brought out the best in me. I did not go into social work, I now work within an equalties team and work with minority service user and service providers to try and support improving services. needless to say stat childrens service do present with capability issues at times in relation to certain ethnic groups. I am doing my masters at the moment and often ponder on wether I will return to social work and try and make a difference, although many of your stories are very off putting.
I wish everyone the best of luck and as hard as it can be at times I hope you don't give up, unfortunatley someone has to break them barriors down.
M.
Have to say before I read this page I was seriously considering a career in social work. I've worked in social care for 9 years, Have an HNC and svq111 in social care and would be a mature student as I am 41 years old. Not meek or very quiet and am well able to handle myself but feel as though the constant bullying many have experienced would wear me down and I would be seriously miserable. Live in Scotland and don't know if 4 years of this type of treatment would be tolerable!!!! Am I wasting my time and money?????
Sounds awful. A lot of managers in public services have no management training or qualifications and deliver a sub standard service.
Public services is plagued with Type X command and control managers who rely on everything being linear and concrete. They assume that the staff are lazy and feckless, need micromanaging and driving like drones. The staff lose any confidence and become reactive and not proactive. The Manager finds that when they are not there, things improve, so they get anxious and become more and more rigid.
There are also a lot of Type Y managers who assume people come to work to do a good job and encourage/motivate the staff to do the best they can with the resources they have, train and retain a capable workforce and are realistic with their seniors in what can and will be achieved.
You then have the mother hens. this lot cover everything up because they have no competence in resolving anything and when they leave or go on the sick, they leave a total mess.
it makes me so sad to hear of the bulling and innappropriate behaviour of placement staff, i can remember vividly a difficult placement (1994) where i was disciplined (inapprpropriaely i add ) by my placement superviser , i was told that the written warning would stay on my record for the rest of my course !!- for assisting a service user to make a marmite sandwich - as it was not in their careplan ,there was an awfull attitude towards the service users - very controlling and almost a climate of fear (staff and service users) , i suppose i had challenged some of the practices and asked questions -regarding the food - there was no reason medical or otherwise that they couldnt eat .
when i returned off my placement i was so upset i broke down when i was asked how i had got on during my placement, my tutor was fantastic and absolutely sorted the placement superviser and placement out, i was offered a different placement due to bullying ,but decided to brave out last 2 weeks - i had done nothing wrong , it was awkward but i think in hindsight it was better than walking away.
looking back i think the placement had a very poor culture in general -lack of regard and respect and controlling clients, bullying staff and students - not actually wanting students and seeing them as an intrusion in their world of poor practice.
it remained difficult when i qualified - its a small world and suprising who knew who!!
strange that you remember these things - but it did teach me not to accept poor practice and have the courage to speak out.
to balance this i had numerous fantastic placements - and i know it wasnt me as i had behaved the same on all the placements.
best wishes