I feel compelled to post something following the experience our team has had with a recent young social work student on placement with us.
This particular student should have been nowhere near any kind of placement, let alone a statutory one. She lacks any of the basic communication skills necessary to work as a shop assistant, let alone in a responsible role with service users. Her lack of confidence was truly astonishing; she would let the phone ring when it was next to her, and could not retain the most basic of information.
She had a complete lack of curiosity about our work and would routinely arrive late into the office, apparently oblivious that her start time was 9am. Effectively, she seemed unable to comprehend the expectations the placement had of her. This was despite patient support from all members of our supportive team, who gave up their time to help her. Worryingly, she seemed to have the emotional maturity of a teenager; on one occasion she even talked to a service user about her own problems.
Despite all the above, it was a gargantuan task for our team to persuade her university that she simply wasn’t up to the task. Eventually they agreed to move her to another placement, but this is setting the poor girl up to fail, as she will surely struggle there too.
I say all this to raise these two points:
1. It seems the calibre of students entering the social work profession is worryingly low.
2. Universities have too much of a financial incentive under the existing system to keep students on, even if they are patently not capable of working in the profession.
I wondered what other people’s thoughts are on this. I really felt for this girl, who is simply not fit at present to work as a social worker. In the end it is the individual, as well as the profession, who suffers when unsuitable candidates are accepted by universities onto their courses.
Bushy
I agree with you that from you post that this student seems unsuitable for the Social work profession, but to tar every student Social worker with the same brush is a bit harsh. I know many a student that have worked very hard on placement, they are often asked to do things that are complicated and require a great amount of skill. I think if people spent more time helping students instead or criticising them then it will be more productive.
I agree with sarah123 that it's unfair to suggest that all or most SW students are not up to the job. However, isn't that what practice placements are [at least in part] for? It's one thing to get on top of the theory, and another to cope with actual practice and placements can provide the opportunity to filter out those who aren't likely to be up to the job. I do acknowledge that it's difficult to endorse a student who clearly isn't up to the mark [and have seen this situation happen several times], but I too have worked with students who have displayed a high level of aptitude. Also, on the other hand, students can find placements inappropriate, and unsupportive, as I did many years ago on a practice placement whilst a student, having to cope with a clearly incompetent practice teacher and a bullying manager. I was grateful to the academic staff [and some staff members in the placement setting] for being so supportive and believing in me.
Years ago students needed to have experience of social care before they could start the dipsw - now we are seeing students on the degree straight from A-levels having no work experience at all (in social care or otherwise).
I do everything I can to provide a supportive learning environment for students, but am finding them increasingly lacking in initiative and a basic skills set. This is usually (but not always!) down to a lack of confidence and can be helped by a structured learning plan. Quite often a gem shines through when the issues have been identified and dealt with.
With regard to the answering the phone issue - I have yet to meet a student that does not avoid answering the phone in their first couple of weeks, or takes a phone into another room so that they don't have to speak in front of everyone! (myself included - many years ago)
Shannon
Hey there,
I can sort of see this from both sides...I am currently a postgraduate SW student on placement and wanted to reassure you that I take the placement very seriously, always turning up on time, being proactive with my own learning and attempting to do the best job I can. I also don't have any problem with answering the phone although I can understand that if you did not have much experience prior to a placement this may seem daunting!! I think for most students myself included, it is fairly normal to lack confidence until you have had time to settle.
On the other hand prior to beginning the course I worked in a CMHT for 3 years as an unqualified worker and often had students shadowing me. I was often surprised by their apparent lack of interest and motivation and sometimes by how 'young' in terms of life experience they seemed. (Bearing in mind I am only 27 myself!)
The recruitment process for my course was lengthy and incredibly detailed. We had to have a minimum of 1 years social care experience and had to be able to relate this to Social Work practice. We had to provide written pieces relating to current social work issues, 2 references, a work and personal one and be interviewed for 2 hours.
These are just my views and it sounds as if the girl you discuss may just not be ready for the job at this point in time but I imagine she will have had to prove that she has the appropriate value base etc to have been accepted onto the course in the first place?
I completely agree with you, I have recently finished an MA, as a mature student with 10 plus years of working in social care before doing the social work training. I feel that many students on my course where only on the course because the had previously done a degree and that they couldn't think of what to do next. From my perspective I feel that universities need to screen out individuals appropriately and lets face it if some people went and GAINED employment/voluntary work etc in social care before going to do the MA/Degree then they would have a much better insight into social work and social care. I purposefully did not do the SW Training 10 years ago because I didn't feel mature enough or ready to become a SW!!
I am a first year student on the MA in social work currenlty on placement. What concerns me is the lack of good placements available to enable students who are motivated, capable and keen to become a good social workers!! I fear when i graduate next year i will have never set foot in a statutory social work team, observed a good social worker in practice or undertook a social work assessment!! Something has to change!! As much as i agree with the above comment my concern rests with the quality of placement oppourtunities. The process i had to go through was quite intense and during the day many candidates were informed they were unsuitable for such a profession at this time, so not all people unsuitable get through!!
I couldn't agree more with concerns laid out here. First, there appears to be a lack of screening, and second, I agree fully with comments about students passing courses regardless of their suitability to social work or levels of experience. I am a first year MA student and have so far been privvy to conversations between other students discussing "is autism contagious?" (I had an understanding of autuism from the age of around 12, bearing in mind these are grown adults entering into social work at postgraduate level), and "at what age do you catch dementia?", being another stand out comment. Additionally, I have experienced staunchly racist comments and attitudes among students that quite frankly depresses me for the future of social work. My interpretation of the situation is that the universities receive far too much income to either keep numbers to an acceptable level (our course has been far too large) and there is a financial incentive to keep people on instead of failing them. All in all, the pride experienced on being accepted onto the course has diminished, and it is almost a slap in the face when you realise how low the standards must have been to accept such prejudice and unwise people. However, I would like to add that the course itself has been superb, the learning experience combined with the placement an excercise in personal development, and the tutors/lecturers have been fantastic. It's just a shame this level of experteise is being wasted on narrow minded people whose only reasons for being on the course are I presume a reaction to unemploment
I've been a practice assessor for more than eight years - in that time I've had the great fortune to meet a number of very skilled and dedicated students who have been an asset to our service. However, I've also met a tiny number of students who really are not suitable for this work. This might have been down to personal capacity, resilience and circumstance but, I fear, increasing numbers of people are applying for social work and nursing degrees simply because they will have tuition fees and bursaries paid for their HE programme. Universities do try to screen out unsuitable candidates and the 'economic' applicants, however, anyone who has ever sat on an interview panel knows that people can 'talk the talk'.
Showing my age now I know, but I applied for the CQSW when I was 24, with a degree in Psychology & Sociology and six years voluntary and paid experience in social care work but was turned down through lack of experience! I was gutted at the time, but years later, when I finally enrolled on the DipSW, I understood completely where that extra experience of life and work had made me a much more effective practitioner. A practice placement is just that - practice - however we are expecting young, relatively inexperienced people to have the interpersonal and critical decision making skills needed to meet the Key Roles. My suggestion is for Universities to bring back an entry criteria of two years minimum people work experience before applying - this would sort out those who are simply applying for a free Uni education and ensure that students had a basic level of skills and knowledge before tackling the demands of placement.
Hi all,
A very interesting thread. I am virtually at the end of the undergraduate course and can honestly say there are people on the course who, if I think about them being social workers actually scare me.
This isn't anything to do wtih maturity I hasten to add as perhaps one of the most short sighted people is in fact a mature person whose comments, quite frankly I find shocking at times. Yet this is a grade A student who has has been able to talk the talk but I don't think can walk the walk.
I entered the course with 5 years experience and am truly thankful I did as it has helped me to link theory to practice from the outset of the course. I would say that the students with greater experience pre course have mostly coped better than those with none. We discussed this though as a group one day and the majority felt there should be a minimum level of pre expereince to starting the course.
I would agree with a lot that's been said in reply to my post.
Of course, there are the very good and dedicated students; what I fear is there is a sizeable minority who are able to get on these courses without the requisite skills. Unfortunately, a lot of these students are the less mature ones who simply do not have the necessary life experience. And it's true a number of students are now doing social work because it means another two years at uni, courtesy of the taxpayer.
Just on the experience point, I came to the profession without much of a social care background but feel I have been able to do the job to a good level. For me it's about competing with other professions to ensure we get really good and motivated people doing social work. That means lifting the reputation of social work in the eyes of the media and public.
The incentive to keep people on social work courses at uni when they are not up to it also has to change. I think in teacher training courses they can get rid of people without being financially penalised.
While I fully understand and share your concerns Bushy, I think you need to hear the other side of the story.
I am an admissions tutor for a BA Social Work Course in the UK. For every space on our course we have 9 applicants. We shortlist candidates who have appropriate experience and academic backgrounds for an interview. At the interview day candidates have to complete a written exercise based on case studies and prior reading and pass a formal interview. We offer places to less than 45% of the candidates we interview.
I cannot speak for any other university but I think this is a rigorous selection process. Sure some do well on the application, written exercise and interview but turn out to lack the necessary skills to become a good social worker in three years (or ever in some cases) but if we only took candidates who were perfect we would never take anybody. We are fined for 'failing' too many students, which does incentivise holding on to students who are performing poorly, but we hold high standards and regularly fail or counsel onto other courses students unsuitable for social work.
I am sorry that your experience with this student was so poor, but this is not the whole story of social work education and attacking university social work courses without recognsing good practice will not help the profession.
Mark
As a student from one of the two universities recently revealed to be a failing social work degree course I have followed this post with much interest.
I entered this course because I am passionate about social justice, equality and human rights. I still am. I am a mature student and I am nearing the end of my degree and will soon be job hunting. I am dismayed that the revelation will not only damage the reputation of the university but also my qualification. I have worked extremely hard over the last three years and feel I have a lot to offer the profession.
I completely understand the criticism directed at the university and Community Care’s decision to reveal the names of the universities is right. The course was not particularly well run, placement opportunities were appalling and yes there are some students who I could never imagine being social workers, but who am I to judge. I would like to point out that the course did improve. The lecturers are all passionate about their subjects, teach well, are committed and want to produce competent social workers. I am not sure what went wrong but I do think it is getting better.
Something I ‘reflect’ on constantly (see, I have been taught to reflect) is the notion of equality being fundamental to social work. Why is this not demonstrated in the training stages? There is a placement lottery where you get what you are given and do not complain. Some on my course have been fortunate and secured two good statutory placements. Some have not had one statutory placement. That is clearly unfair. We have all paid the same amount of money as any other student so surely we should expect the same level of service.
I am not naturally a complainer, much more the get on with it type but I am incensed with rage at the unfairness of it all. I, and many on my course, have the potential to be fantastic social workers who are wholly committed to the profession and have integrity, passion and a deep desire to do well. I am sure we will all be fine despite this but it is disappointing and disheartening.
Hi I find this tale rather ironical.
Im a graduate in social work from New Zealand, back then in the 1988 era we had two systems per se for those wanting qualifications.
Namely the Diploma in Social Work and or the Bachelor of Social Work.
Essentially the latter was for those straight out of college, and believe you me, I did supervise some very naive, sometimes utopian students.
However i think the point is really, when does one enter the field, and should age matter?
As pointed out by some, you cant tar everyone, but then the reality from the rhetoric is something else....for example what do employers say when someone who is say 45 or 50 years old with 20 years experience applies for a position and then has to do a placement, compared to the norm whereby some suggest that in the profession people should enter in their late 20 years...does anyone know of any research to collaborate this?
Another good point made, is the relationship is reciprocal, ie the placement does not suggest that the teachers can teach, no matter what the social or academic ability of the student, again the reality from the rhetoric suggests something else.
I think the reality in this situation is that it seems that prior to this persons placement there was no preparation of the place by the placement teacher! and lets be fair it would really be interesting to hear the side of that student....thats the crux of this, we have only one side of the story.....to generalise that the standards of the students is not on par.....suggests the question based on whose perception and value base......social work i thought was about over coming challenges and turning them into opportunities, not negating the frailties of our humaness. Would I take a placement in that office....I dont think so based on what I have read....it would be interesting to have learnt of the students feed back on this placement. By the way I see two universities have been named and shamed per se for their alleged social work training standards.
Hi,
I was a student on the first cohort of the new degree. During placements I observed fellow students (both social work and nursing students) being bullied or undermined in their placements. They were placed with professionals who had adopted negative attitudes to the students' personalities, and viewed all of their actions through the prism of their own prejudices. None of the bullied people challenged their oppressors, being dependent upon them for positive feedback and approval.
I am sure the negative views about students expressed here are fair and balanced, but would caution against acceptance of these judgements just on face value. There are 2 sides to most stories.
I have recently been involved in inspections of social services. I am retired now, but keep in touch with issues. What is most depressing to find is that there are still departments that overload students with cases that are truly difficult for anyone, and then don't give adequate support. Social work students are not nearly as politicised as in my day, which is a pity. They would protest a lot more about their treatment if they were. Maybe those sort of people are less likely to enter the profession these days. Maybe you have to be a bit of a weird person to want to join a profession vilified by the press, and subject to an amazing number of checking procedures, both internal and external. Hand on heart though, the real difference is that the good students are creamed off to the good departments. In some areas (I won't name them) all the students seem highly capable, and go on to join permanent staff in that authority fairly often. I wonder if unwittingly some courses set some students up to fail because of the lack of sound professional support in a well run department? I have seen some departments where nobody, however capable, would survive. It's a bit like saying to someone taking their driving test, "Well you can go and take your test in a sleepy village on a nice sunny day with not much traffic about" and to someone else, "You're taking your test on the Paris peripherique in rush hour, and you've got a dodgy clutch and the car is only firing on three cylinders".
I too am worried about the students who somehow manage to scrape through the system and are on the social work course. To begin with the age should have never been lowered to 18, it should be more like 24/25. I dont care if young people think they have the experince in some cases, the responsibility a social worker has and the power to make desicions should not rest with a social worker who is 21 years of age.
I was on the social work degree recently and found it worrying how young people with very little academic standards had found their way to the degree programme. Most of them admitted that the prospect of having no tution fees and a bursary had made this degree far more attractive. There were many who couldnt spell or even articulate themselves properly and mummbled and a few who could not be bothered to attend the lectures and others signed in for them. Students admitted that the essays were not their work and were a mixture of past essays and re writing other peoples work, and as long as they kept quiet in the lectures they wouldnt be found out.
Many students should not have passed the degree, they failed multiple placements and were allowed to retake them and re do assignements, time and time again, it just did not make sense.
The calibre of students was very poor, and the university had tried too hard to get a mixture of the right balance for their books, ie; international students/gay/lesbian students/black students/disabled students and male students. This seemed far more important to the University who were then giving out extras of £6000 worth of help and support if they managed to get past the dyslexic tests. What will the social workers do in real life situation when they are out in the real demanding work life? I personally knew two students who lied in the tests to get more support and help with this.
Hi everybody,
I have 20 years experience (CQSW) and an MBA degree.
1. university's are in the bums on seats business. They dont care about the quality of students. Its just like the Ford plant in Detroit - Keep the line running - and sod the quality - we get paid by numbers.
2.Social work is piss poor paid. As a result its bound to attract a lot of talentless people. Peanuts and monkeys.
3. The standard of management in SSD is terrible - most managers have no management qualification - they are just old dinosars who have survived against the odds. How can they support practice teachers and challenge Prof. "know it all" at the local Polytechnic - sorry - they are all Universitys now!!!
Get real people
My team and students are top dollar. I wouldnt accept anything less.
Kicking elected members and other senior managers - no problem!
its about quality of service and the future
Tony
As a student currently undertaking my social work degree I find this thread very interesting. When I went on placement I was amazed that my practice assessor was praising me for things which I consider to be very simple, such as interacting well with service users and using my initiative - it concerns me that he finds most students are not able to do these things.
Within my degree I find the calibre of students of real concern. There are many students both mature and younger who I can see will be an asset to the profession. (I hope I am one of these!) However, I have been totally shocked by some of the comments made by my fellow students, as well as their lack of knowledge of the world. To quote just a few choice comments which have been made:
"All the problems in our society are down to single mothers raising their children without their fathers"
"If a service user's home was not clean I would refuse to go there again"
"young offenders are evil people, there is not point trying to help them as they are just bad to the core and will always be bad."
I have real worry that when these people qualify they could do damage, but I'm not sure what the solution is. I'm sure that when they were interviewed they probably all 'talked the talk' and the only times they show these shocking attitudes is when they are with other students, I feel that the lecturers do not know these things are going on. Whenever such a comment is made in front of me I always challenge the person who has made it, but beyond that I'm not sure what can be done. I can only hope that on placement their true colours will show and the practice assessors will advise the University of their concerns. I would also like to point out that these are a mixture of both younger and older students. I am a mature student myself, and have to say there are some 18 year olds on my degree that have more life experience and people skills than some 40 year olds. So it is not always down to age.
How sad I am to read this of Manchester University! I qualified from there in 1992 - the last of the CQSW, and at that time the course had the reputation as being the best in England. You were offered a job the strength of having studied social work at Manchester!
A few years later I was very disapointed to discover that the social work dept. had been moved from its home with the social policy dept.and amalgamated with.....Nursing Midwifery and social work!!!
Are there any clues here?
hi
i also feel compelled to say that as a third year student currently on my final placement that not all students are this poor.
I love my job the challenges and am extremely enthusiastic for this profession and my practice teacher has told me that i have helped renew her enthusiasm for the thoroughly demanding work that she and others entail. We need to stop criticising each other and start supporting each other as we would the service users we work with and empower our selves and others to do the right thing, so when young students turn up for work late and scared to pick up the phone the support is in place to guide them through it. It is not their fault they are encouraged to take on a difficult job without much life experience yes they choose to do it but were we not all young once and thought we could take on the world. Take some responsiblity and show her the way and if she is still not cut out for it politely explain why and suggest something more appropriate. There are hidden qualities in all of us i have worked with some fantastic social workers one in particular who is known on these sites if i didn't have the support from people like her i would not be sat here now in my last year of the degree fulfilling what i thought was an unattainable dream!
My current placement is fantastic and the team are a great support and i have learnt so much from them all.
I still think that students need some degree of social care/voluntary work.life experience, some students on my MA course where clearly below par and actually prevented me from learning and getting the most out of university. Many students think placements should teach them to be social workers, however they do need a healthy set of core values to do the job! I think some students should TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for themselves, their learning and professional development.
I have found these posts very interesting. I agree wholeheartedly that there are definately people (both young and old) on social work degree courses that really shoudn't have been allowed beyond the interview. However, I think universities and the staff need to take a lot of responsibility for the calibre of the students and take proper control of the placements that they offer as these often make or break a student. I am a third year student and where I study we get a placement request form to fill out. However, you may as well leave it blank, as anything you right on there about what you expect from your career, your interest in certain areas or your previous experience just gets completely ignored. I have had absolutely pointless placements throughout my degree, with little or no social work involvement included. I was lucky enough to find staff with two of the placements that were supportive and would go that extra mile to help me and put me in touch with others who could provide me with the experience I needed to gain. Trying to get a placement changed was impossible and there has been very little support from the university. So many people in my year on the course can't wait to finish just to put in formal complaints about this situation, which I think is a ridiculous state of affairs. I was even put in a placement with a bullying practice assessor and the uni would do nothing about it in case they lost the placement altogether - so concerned are they about keeping 'good relationships' with certain placements and so feel it is easier to ignore their own students. It only ended as I had to walk out after being screamed at for no apparent reason on more than one occasion and I did not feel that it was my duty as a student to take such abuse. Unfortunately some students do not walk out of placements like that and endure the bullying, as they do not feel supported enough to make a stand or complain and this fractures their confidence to practice. I think a lot needs to be done to improve the standard of the course and the placement provided.
there are long practising social workers out there who dont make the grade, i have seen some bad practice out there, so what about not only focusing on students who are rubbish there are also social workers who are rubbish too
I've just been accused of bullying by a placement student. She lacked some really basic skills in interaction and common sense, didn't use her initiative from the get go, and alienated the whole team. I was the team leader who tried to support her and protect her placement, asking my manager to give her a chance. Now I've got to go to her university and face some kind of complaints panel. I've since left the job for another post, for reasons unconnected and through my own choice, and have to take a day's holiday in order to be accused of absolute nonsense. The reason I have to go and face this is because if I don't, apparently my GSCC registration, which I worked so hard for, could be taken away. I can't believe I have no protection against this. I genuinely think she's making malicious allegations because she didn't manage as well in her placement as she apparently did academically. If she can blame me then it's then not her fault and she can carry on with the course without penalty.
My second uni placement failed because I was unpleasantly treated by a manager who made irrelevant comments about my self harm scars. i know how difficult it is to pick up the pieces, so I tried to make her placement a supportive one.
I agree that it now seems like there's too much emphasis on academics and not enough on common sense. It's not the hardest job in the world if you have support and can make informed choices. Practice is essential, and placements are vital. Students and universities need to take responsibility for their preparation and their performance while in real life workplaces. As much as a workplace will try to accommodate a student, it's still a 'work'place. Not an extension of university.
I've had concerns with the calibre or appropriateness of a practice teacher. And that person really is in a position of power, passing or failing a student. I've certainly spotted things in my practice teacher's practice, whereby I feel she has worked oppressively with service users. Also engaged oppressively with me, when I've tried to arrange days off, holidays, which we're all entitled to, whether student or staff, it's been extremely difficult being allowed time off, trying to negotiate with her about something I shouldn't have to be negotiating about. Also being sick one day, came in the next day to effectively be accused of wagging the day, having supposedly stayed up late watching an England game the previous night. I was sick and in bed for goodness sake.
So, some people may well have concerns over calibre of student but also it's important to acknowledge the importance of the calibre of the practice teacher and how this can have serious implications for the practice and development (and happiness) of the student social worker. Personality clashes can and do happen etc, and students can feel powerless.
I can identify with both sides of this debate too- there are some students on my university course and I have come across some in placement settings too who are quite simply not at the standard they need to be for the stage of their training and some whom I have doubts will ever be at the appropriate standard for a qualified social worker.
However, I can also identify with comment relating to practice teachers, due to my current experiences. I often feel like I have to treat my current PT with kid gloves, taking the same sort of approach I might with some service users, constantly watching how I ask questions or express things in supervision so as not to damage his extremely fragile self confidence and self esteem any further. I constantly feel as if I'm walking on eggshells, encouraging and supporting him, and have suspicions that he has been encouraged to take a student to try to increase his assertiveness and confidence (something that has been hinted at by other staff in the team too). He is no different with service users either, and I witnessed one last week shouting at him out of frustration due to this inability to make a simple decision in relation to their care package at which point I thought he was going to cry.
So yes, there are students who do not have the requisite skills or attributes for the job; however there are many qualified and practising social workers and practice teachers who are the same.
Not much different to any other job or profession really, I guess! People who work in jobs for which they are unsuited or incapable are commonplace in all sectors- who should we expect social work be any different?
I had a vast amount of experience within the care setting prior to undertaking my degree but still I felt like I didn't know anything when I first started my placements. After a while and with a supportive practice assessor and team I was able to learn at my own pace and this gave me more confidence to challenge myself and to develop as a practitioner.
Like Destiny-Calls I have 20 years experience in social work, CQSW, Post Grad Social Work x2 and first degree. i have worked at the front end as a practitioner and manager.
1. Universities are dealing in numbers rather than quality and the current placements on offer to students ( and I am speaking from the North of England) , certainly do not prepare them for entering children's services.
2. Instead of having the opportunity to learn their trade, many are being sent by agencies to totally inappropriate roles, thrown in at the deep end with cases up to 30 in failing authorities, covering looked after children, safeguarding and legal proceedings. May are sinking and put off for life from working in children's services, and when combined with adverse publicity, no wonder they leave. I also need to mention the adverse effect of such work not only on the social worker , but the children and families that they deal with.
3. Social work what ever the branch continues to be poorly paid. Senior managers ( in local government) social care carry on as if there is an endless supply of workers and managers to fill the gap without investing in their care or development. In children's services workers are being asked to go out alone on section 47 investigations by managers!
4. Leadership within departments at a senior level is abysmal. Personal naked ambition without ethics, morals or conscious appear to be the order of the day. The ideological merger of different branches of children's services whilst sound in principal clearly has not worked in practice, the consequences of this can be seen in social care departments throughout the land and the vitriol in which the profession is held. See the telegraph today , Christopher Booker, page 29, 'mother in court over a birthday card'.
5. The problems with students and particularly newly qualified social workers ( of what ever age or development) is a result of poor university selection, inadequate placements, lack of challenge in some institutions in removing inadequate students. However some local authorities are training in house via the OU and not ensuring their employees who are student social workers have adequate placements.
The profession is at a critical point and we do have to make a stand to make the future better.
Bushy, Assuming you are man, your reference to the student as a "girl" is instructive of a sexist attitude, converting an adult into a child like figure can be considered a pre-cusor to further discrimination. Much of other peoples discussion herein also focuses on age in ways that is currently illegal, though this has only been legislated against recently. Some students do fail courses and surely Practice Teachers and University Tutors have professional duties to support and evaluate the capabilities of prospective social workers. I suggest social work has been co-opted as a statist function. Social work pathways could offer students exposure to broad areas of practice, with statutory work only being one of many options. Those who talk about academic standards often seem to me to be those who want to remove rungs from the ladder they now look down upon. This might prove insightful:
Teachers 'quit jobs' in thousands "The government statistics show that of those who qualified in 2000, 2,100 never taught in schools. This rose steadily to 2005 (the latest available), when 7,900 of those who qualified have never taught."http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7161071.stm
Hi Kaury, I have recently stumbled across this discussion.
Just wanted to stand up for the people who are 21years old (like myself) and who are completing a Social Work Degree!
There are exceptions, some "young people" are able to cope perfectly well in a Social Work setting, statutory and voluntary, and work to a high standard and provide a quality service to the Service Users they work with. I have recently completed my second year placement and came away with confidence in my abilities to be a Social Worker and knowing that I completed my role to the best of my ability. The people that I have worked with in my Social Work Placement (which employed me throughout the summer months) and also in my part time job regularly comment on my maturity and that I am "not like a typical 21 year old" and I am sure that there will be other people like me.
I feel that I have not lead a shadowed life, I have an eagerness to learn and am curious about new areas of working. Why should my age affect the amount of responsibility I have and my power to make decisions?
I thought Social Work is a non-judgemental profession that strives for equality? In my experience my "young age" is sometimes seen as a disadvantage. I find this unfair and I have had to prove myself previously, and here I am again!
I do accept that some younger people will not have the same inquisitive nature which I do and may seem slightly lacking in knowledge of real life situations and the problems which people face, but usually they are not interested in becoming a qualified Social Worker.
P.S. this is not a personal attack on you, just me standing up for myself (and my age)
My own personal experience is very different from yours. I started a four year degree and CQSW in 1984 at the age of 18. I was not ready to train to be a social worker, but I still passed my course. For my first five years in practice I was not a good social worker. But I learnt how to become good at the job and I now lecture in social work.
As I said earlier, rigorous selection processes are vital to social work education. There is a corelation between aged and preparedness. It is hard to have acquired enough life experience by the age of 18 to be ready for a social work course. I think your language is problematic. While it is true that social work has a value of being non-judgemental, it has a duty to make judgements. Where I agree with you most strongly is that to automatically assume that lack of years means lack of experience (or that older students are automatically more mature) is pure prejudice.
Each candidates should be judged on their unique qualities, strengths and experience. Some teenagers are brilliantly ready to be social workers, some in their fifties are not (yet) ready. We need to stand up for the whole of the profession (and not just our age, gender, race, class etc).
Hello, first time poster here. New BA mature student........
All I really wanted to say is that looking around at my fellow students (approx 50) I do see some people that have made me question whether they'll be competent academically or emphatically (?). BUT on the whole I've been very impressed with peoples attitudes, abilities and previous life experiences. The general atmosphere is of friendly, focussed, intelligent people. I genuinely feel that the powers that be that selected us must have seen something valuable or malleable in each of us.................... even me.
I qualified in 2009 and shared the same concerns regarding the calibre of some of the students on my course as many people have expressed here.
I remember one piece of assessed work we had to complete in groups. The groups were allocated by the uni and there was one person in our group who did no work at all throughtout the module. Towards the end of term we became increasingly frustrated and asked her to input more into the work. She complained to the tutor that we were bullying her and we got told to 'back off' . I believe the fact that she did not orignate from the UK may have had something to do with this, it was never exclicity stated but the suggestion was that we were being racist - which was totally unjustified. Anyway In the end she passed the module but did absolutely no work towards it at all. At the time we felt completely cheated.
A couple of years on and a few of us who qualified together recently got together to do the old who's doing what business. Only about 10% of people who qualified when I did are working as qualified social workers, and those are the ones who worked hard, participated in lectures and took responsibility for their own learning. The others have been unable to secure qualified jobs. I assume this is because they approach the interviews in the same way they did uni.
Given the number of social work vacancies it seems a real shame that we are in this situation.
MrsM: Only about 10% of people who qualified when I did are working as qualified social workers, and those are the ones who worked hard, participated in lectures and took responsibility for their own learning. The others have been unable to secure qualified jobs. I assume this is because they approach the interviews in the same way they did uni.
Only about 10% of people who qualified when I did are working as qualified social workers, and those are the ones who worked hard, participated in lectures and took responsibility for their own learning. The others have been unable to secure qualified jobs. I assume this is because they approach the interviews in the same way they did uni.
While I completely agree with your point that students who don't prepare or participate in lectures/tutorials etc are more likely to be the ones who are less likely to prepare for interviews or to last in social work, your post contains some odd anomalies. You state that you qualified in 2009; you then say 'a couple of years on'. It is not a couple of years since 2009.
You then state that 'only about 10% of people who qualified when you did are working as qualified social workers.' That means for every 100 students who graduated on your course only about 8-12 of them found jobs as qualified social workers? You must have been on the UK's worst social work course.
Reasoned debate (and good social work assessments) require careful presentation of the facts. And given the low opinion the public has of social workers, the failure to present the facts clearly on a public forum is a real shame.
JoSoPhine,
I agree that cultural differences mean we should not assume that students who don't participate in one particular type of learning will be 'bad social workers', but I can assure you that there are students who consistently fail to engage, and who let other students do the work for them, and gain grades without putting in anywhere near the same work as other students. I think it is perfectly reasonable for students to feel upset when another students puts in no work but gets to share the grade.
As for "taking responsibility for one's own learning on a University course is a bit of nonsense", I think that shows a real lack of understanding. Yes, the timetable and curriculum are set, but believe me each and every student in the room has a different motivation for being there. Each person has unique strengths and areas of weakness. If you think education is just about ticking the set boxes then you have a poor view of education. Social work courses aim to develop the whole person through broad based learning, and absolutely that is the student's responsibility too. A 20 credit module will require 200 hours study, of which the University curriculum, timetable, teaching and assignments will account for less than 100 hours. So who is responsible for the remaining 100 hours of study?
Your BA will be for 3 three years and then graduates will have one year as an NQSW so the 'raw' talent you are currently perceiving should change over time, first impressions do last, but do give fellow students at least 1460 days before deciding upon other people.
Most of the adverts for social workers in the media have no reflection on the real job in the field. I have seen ridiculous examples of adverts when social workers engage people with community centres and the like. What a load of rubbish. We are agents of social control dealing with people who object to being controlled in the way that Government wants them to be.
It is no surprise that people enter training with the wrong idea so try being supportive rather than condemning. The student is supposed to be in charge of their own learning and as long as they get the competencies done, then thats ok is it not.
If it is that much of a concern that she has not met the professional threshold, fail her on the placement.