Who else is with me in thinking that there is something deeply wrong about the current social work job market at the moment. Thousands and thousands of post across the UK unfillied and thousands and thousands of qualified social workers out of work. My local authority has 170 unallocated cases, just sitting for weeks, waiting for a social worker to pick them up when they can, whilst risk to the children involved, rises and rises and rises.
There are five posts advertised for children's social workers for this LA on community care, all stipulating at least two years experience and offering around £30 per hour. Why has it not occured to somebody, to reduce the salary by half and take on NQSW,
I still feel like i need to gain some proper experience/training etc etc... I think they should introduce more 'social work assistant roles' for NQSW at a lower salary and prove you can do that for a year first. Get in the job and develop the skills, gain the experience and then go out and do the real thing. I applied for one sw assistant- only one i saw advertised in my locality- did not even get shortlisted LOL!!!
"Thousands and thousands of post across the UK unfillied and thousands and thousands of qualified social workers out of work"
It's called cuts, sadly.
Its a ridiculous situation regarding newly qualified social workers; I can't think of any other profession that refuses to take on their new trainees. Teachers, doctors, dentists all do it because they are proper professions and Social Work needs to start taking itself more seriously.
I suspect LA managers and HR departments have a lot to answer for re poor recrutiment of NQSWs.
I understand the debate here with NQSW, however many LA's prefer to take on more experienced SW's, for an agency position as they can effectively "hit the ground running", don't need further training, don't get sick pay or holidays. Furthermore I am passionate that trainee social workers should have at least X2/3 years paid or voluntary work prior to undertaking the SW Degree or Masters, as this will ensure that the experiences related to SW are not just theoretically based. I understand SW placements should ensure the above, however I feel placements are not enough to skill NQSW with a range of skills, values and professionalism related to this field. I will say this again and again, trainee SW MUST have prior "social care"experience before entering into the profession!!
I thought that was a condition of starting the SW degree? It certainly was at my college. Hasn't helped me get any interviews though :-(
I did too! However there where a great deal of people on the MA course I did with ZERO social care experience....I think its appauling that Universities are allowing this to happen!
the really sad thing is tat i suspect that alot are going to be thrown on the scrap heap before they start - happened before with other careers - nurses physios etc , no reason why thats not going to happen with nqsw - the worst thing for me is that unis are clearly taking people on and not warning them of the job market and its impications - disgracefully they wont bite the hand that feeds them !
greenman84:It just does not make sense. As a third year student (with no real experience of doing social work) I was thrown into the deep end at cafcass carrying out section 7 and 37 enquiries, . making recommendations and reporting directly to judges. I had no experience but did some great pieces of work. It feels as though people trusted my abilities, skills and experience MORE than they do now asa qualified worker with morechild protection experience. Everybody has to start somewhere
thats a very good point
its partly down to the fact that everyones so overloaded cxase wise that there is just no spare caoacity to take on nqsw who need even minimal supervision/ guidance
its short sighted in the extreme as all it would take would be an extra few staff to reduce caseloads and then nqsw's could come on board
tho the benefits of a less overworked and less stressed workforce have been highlighted endlessly on here Im sure - and nothing ever changes
its about time social workers went on strike methinks - it would have a massive impact as it would be something that has never (?) happened before
I am in support of LA investing in NQSW. The market is full of NQSWs that are ready to work and gain the experience required by all the employers. How do these employers want us to get the experience required without working somewhere, even volunteering is impossible. All entrance is blocked to the NQSWs.
Can someone up there HELP these marginalised NQSWs.
I am in a LA that recruited 20 NQSW last year, if not more. This was mainly due to restructuring of childrens services.
To be honest some teams just cannot cope with an influx of even more NQSW's. For example the team I work in, there were 5 of us NQSW that started together last year and make up 5 of the current 8 social workers (not including ATM/TM).
It was a risky decision but has paid off, even though it was difficult for a while as this is a front line child protection team.
However, I know that the TM doesn't want to take on anymore NQSW for the time being until we are more experienced.
Not meaning too sound rude, but I don't think you 'understand the debate here'. I think you have slightly gone off topic as the topic is about NQSW not being able to even get interviews due to lack of infrastructure that enables the transition from graduation to a job.
I'm a NQSW (This July) with an MSc in social work and about 10years social care experience however, the point is that LA's require 2+ years post qualifying experience in a SW department, previous 'care' experience although helpful is not the point here. I have already been filtered and turned down/not even put forward for positions due to not having the 2+ years PQ experience in a LA. How do I get this experience?... lol
Its BS IMO - There isn't a lack of Social workers, as claimed by the MSM et al...There is a lack of NQSW roles...
I completely agree with everything you have stated in your OP. I am about to graduate in July with an MSc and about 10years care work/support work experience...
I'm not sure on how/or even who would be able to address this issue?! Maybe UNISON - not sure they would be able to do anything, or SWAN (social work action network) - again not sure they have any power to do anything.
I am even considering starting my own SWP (social work practice) - although the pilots are limited to children & families (I want to do Mental Health).
Its incredibly frustrating to have got this far - for what, a piece of paper? I have now signed on and am contemplating support worker roles.
I do not necessarily agree with this comment. Having just completed a Psychology degree I was fortunate to study with some great people. One of which I know will be starting the MA SW with me in September. At 25 she has very limited experience in the social care area, However, I have no doubt in my mind she is going to be one of the finest SW's produced by the University. I say this because she has incredible empathic understanding, is non judgmental and is versatile and flexible. Sometimes, when people have worked in the SC enviroment for many years (without the formal training of SW) They become stagnated, dispondent and rigid in their thinking. This of course also happens with qualified staff.
When someone wants to become a dentist, we don't say have some experience in the setting first, when someone wants to be a nurse, we don't insist they have experience in a care setting.. Of course it helps, and may help your interview process. But, if you have someone, who knows that their vocation in life is to become a Social Worker, and that passion is evident then why not. You can have experience in a care setting but TOTALLY miss the point. I have worked within the SC industry for most of my life, and I can honestly say few of the people I have met posess the qualities this young lady has. I feel sure she is not the only one. We have to trust that the people choosing and selecting students have the experince and insight to know what it is they are looking for. It is difficult times for people right now with austerity measures affecting the futures of many young students. Let's not make it any harder for those few who have the direction that for some of us (I am 46) took so long to discover. I enjoy the mix of young and "older" (mature if you like :-) It seems evident that the maturers students out number the youngsters. but I think we can learn from them and them from us.
Appauling is a very strong word.. All the experience in the world does not necessarily mean they are going to better equipped to be a great SWorker.
I worked in a variety of sectors, Drug and Alcohol, Therapeutic Comminities, Homelessness etc over 10 years and can say I never become "stagnated, dispondent and rigid" in my thinking, if anything it has helped to shape my practice, values and ethics of which are salient to becoming a sound practitioner. I am sure this young lady is a very competent individual, however without the experience of social care (paid or unpaid), everything will be theory based and based on work based interventions. I know "appauling" is a very strong word but I believe that social care experience is a must in relation to students studying social work.
If there are any NQSW out there who feel the same as I do about the whole employment situation, I am in the process of starting an online campaign and would love you all to join. Watch this space and I will send you details on how to join tonight.
Other professions are no different at the moment. I know of newly qualified nurses that can't get jobs. Our local hospital is laying off hundreds of jobs right now- even though you wonder how they can cope with fewer nurses than they have got.
Teachers are the same.
romeo2001: greenman84:It just does not make sense. As a third year student (with no real experience of doing social work) I was thrown into the deep end at cafcass carrying out section 7 and 37 enquiries, . making recommendations and reporting directly to judges. I had no experience but did some great pieces of work. It feels as though people trusted my abilities, skills and experience MORE than they do now asa qualified worker with morechild protection experience. Everybody has to start somewhere thats a very good point its partly down to the fact that everyones so overloaded cxase wise that there is just no spare caoacity to take on nqsw who need even minimal supervision/ guidance its short sighted in the extreme as all it would take would be an extra few staff to reduce caseloads and then nqsw's could come on board tho the benefits of a less overworked and less stressed workforce have been highlighted endlessly on here Im sure - and nothing ever changes its about time social workers went on strike methinks - it would have a massive impact as it would be something that has never (?) happened before
Highlights the point of unions; now if just the financial collectors went on strike that would be a different matter.
I will qualify next year and I am already very worried about the lack of NQSW positions available. I have almost 8 years experience in residential care for an LA but that counts for nothing when applying for jobs. With so many high risk cases sitting waiting for a social worker to pick them up, why not pass the lower risk cases to NQSW's to "cut their teeth on" and get valuable experience. I would be happy to join a campaign to raise the profile of how difficult it is to get experience in todays budget cuts market!
LA's need to realise that there is a wealth of staff out there who would be very happy to pick up cases and help out experienced social workers- we can gain experience and hopefully see how the more experienced staff work.
absolutly 'lulacat', Your exactly the kind of person we need behind this campaign. I will post details tonight :)
Hi all
Im a first year MSc student keeping a watching brief on the NQSW situation.
I'd like to know why the NHSBSA are funding the current level of bursaries when there is no clear pathway for graduate entry to the profession?
But I agree with the previous posters in that more needs to be done to help NQSW's to enter LA's. Also more non-statutory employers of social workers need to give NQSW's a chance to gain PQ experience.
I did say "some" I know there are some fantastic social workers out there. I also know there are some that feel dispondent because of the intense pressures they face. Only when as a socitey we stand back and take a good look at the system we have shaped can we see a way to create change. The cuts, in all sectors is going to cripple our communities and services. the worse is yet to come. I feel for anyone trying to seek employment in any area right now. I have been looking for almost a year. I am not alone, but fortunately I get to do the MA. Many other graduates do not have that option/ I am very much up for supporting a campaign that addresses the issues surrounding NQSW and helping them get into employment.. Count me in! :-)
Shirack: romeo2001: greenman84:It just does not make sense. As a third year student (with no real experience of doing social work) I was thrown into the deep end at cafcass carrying out section 7 and 37 enquiries, . making recommendations and reporting directly to judges. I had no experience but did some great pieces of work. It feels as though people trusted my abilities, skills and experience MORE than they do now asa qualified worker with morechild protection experience. Everybody has to start somewhere thats a very good point its partly down to the fact that everyones so overloaded cxase wise that there is just no spare caoacity to take on nqsw who need even minimal supervision/ guidance its short sighted in the extreme as all it would take would be an extra few staff to reduce caseloads and then nqsw's could come on board tho the benefits of a less overworked and less stressed workforce have been highlighted endlessly on here Im sure - and nothing ever changes its about time social workers went on strike methinks - it would have a massive impact as it would be something that has never (?) happened before There have been strikes; trouble is Romeo people are a bit like you, nobody noticed. LA rubbed their hands with glee at the cash saved. Highlights the point of unions; now if just the financial collectors went on strike that would be a different matter.
have social workers serioiusly gone on strike? Never knew that and am gobsmacked - when was it what was it over and how long for?
stevienicks76: I worked in a variety of sectors, Drug and Alcohol, Therapeutic Comminities, Homelessness etc over 10 years and can say I never become "stagnated, dispondent and rigid" in my thinking, if anything it has helped to shape my practice, values and ethics of which are salient to becoming a sound practitioner. I am sure this young lady is a very competent individual, however without the experience of social care (paid or unpaid), everything will be theory based and based on work based interventions. I know "appauling" is a very strong word but I believe that social care experience is a must in relation to students studying social work.
the thing is - im not sure how providing personal care to people prepares you for any of the roles and tasks of a social worker - yes it may give you insight into a few things and help you know what to look for
It surely cant help for children and family social worker can it?
The problem is that everyone thinks there own path is the best thing since sliced bread - Im sure Im on record on these forums saying similar about a shools based experience - I dont think that anymore not least because there are clearly good social workers that dont have it.
Social work encompasses so many roles and areas that its surely impossible to pin down one path to greatness?
redana:romeo- social workers have been striking for years. Probably under the umbrella of their paricular union alongside other public sector workers though. Last one I remember was 2006ish. The last time one was threatened by my particular union, members voted against it.......
im literally shocked - what was it over?
maybe its cos we dont have our own union that it isnt poublicised in the same way teachers strikes are
what happened to the service users while everyone was on strike - did they survive?
Romeo Romeo where for art thou been?
I dont envy NQSW at all. Having worked along them for a while I am the last one who wouldnt have 10 minutes to spare to explain, advise and guide. However, I feel CP and court work is not ideal to start with sw. Having worked in a front line CP team I experienced how quick people loose confidence, struggle with ICS, have no time to reflect their practice etc.
I remember one NQSW who joined the team and was told there would be a protected case load for the first 12 months, training, supervision etc. Reality proved to be different. We attended an ICPC and the worker was supposed to take on the case after the conference. In no time the case blew up and proceedings were initiated. While the worker came across as confident and good at making decisions and analysing risk she soon changed, became anxious and questioned her abilities. Thats not the point and I feel that a LAC or CIN team would have suited her better. Leave alone the "protected case load".
Yes, we all have to start somewhere and yes its always going to be a learning process but in my opinion CP / front line is not the place to start. Life experience, a certain age, other work experience is necessary to do the job - my opinion.
Following my last post regarding my campaign, I am currently in the process of researching facts figures and statistics and want to speak to team managers of local authorites as well gaining the views of newly qualified workers. This is most likely going to be done through a questionaire or face to face interviews and it would like to get your views when the time comes. (A link to this will be posted on this thread)
I have my domain name and i am in the process of setting up the website so please bear with me.
I agree Smoothie!!
I think my frustration is that having worked unqualified for 10 years in social care, I did x3 years in Family Support, I was trained in Solution Focused Therapy to use this as a tool to keep children and families together (where possible), I worked within S17 and S47 and wrote reports etc. I believe my 10 years exp should count when employers are looking at my skills, but when I first qualified x2 years ago I was "grouped" with all the NQSW, who only had their placements as "experience". I get really fed up with this as I feel that lack of work related social care exp, hinders other NQSW who HAVE work experience, who however are "branded" in the same group of those who don't.
I could not agree more this post mirrors my own experiances If there is a campaign starting I want to be a part of it. How can it be allowed that uni courses that cost good money are arranging placments that do not meet the requirments of entering employment?
Its a con
greenman84: Following my last post regarding my campaign, I am currently in the process of researching facts figures and statistics and want to speak to team managers of local authorites as well gaining the views of newly qualified workers. This is most likely going to be done through a questionaire or face to face interviews and it would like to get your views when the time comes. (A link to this will be posted on this thread) I have my domain name and i am in the process of setting up the website so please bear with me.
When will this website be ready?
Why do people expect employers to have any feelings for employees points of view?
Wake up and realise you are just a commodity.
Employers don't worry about integrity any more; the workforce well is always full.
True, I agree to a point. All my post grad exp had been in adult services, doing agency work.
There was a social work strike in the 70's. Service Users ! (I don't think they were called that then) came out in their thousands to encourage us to stay on strike! Well, probably not in their thousands, but you get my drift. There was a strike in LIverpool in the noughties protesting at, amongst other things, unqualified staff conducting assessments.
The realisation has not yet dawned, for some, not all, nqsw's that in children services they are, more often than not, working with involuntary clients. I have had many an nqsw telephone me whilst on a CP referral expressing astonishment that the 'service user' won't let them over the door-step. To expect a 21 year old nqsw to manage these groups is unrealistic. I know the debate is an old one, but the lowering of the entry age for qualification to 18 was something that should never have been allowed to happen. The 'profession' does not have the systems in place to support an influx of young adults with little life experience. In recent years resources have been directed to support and sustain the cult of micro-management with very little investment in quality training and support for nqsw. The investment in nqsw co-ordinators (probably the last easy job left in social work) is insufficient and in most LA's a temporary post.
Greenman, I an 100% behind you. I am just finishing my course, I have several years social care experience prior to my degree, but as you say redana, social care is not social work and I agree with that. But how exactly are NQSWs suposed to gain this elusive 2 years PQ experience if no-one wants to employ us? Yes I have had great experiences on placement but what is the use of the degree or the placement if you need the PQ experience simply to gain a job?
Many of my MA SW colleuagues have managed to get their jobs through their placements which was very lucky for them, however I was not as lucky and cannot find a social worker job anywhere in the North West area that I can even fill out an application for because they want far more from me than I could possibly have learned from my degree. If I had known how difficult it would be to even get a job I would have stuck to support work as I am now in further debt through funding myself on this MA over the last 2 years.
We need a professional career path outlining for social work and a decent way of entering the workforce without having to fight tooth and nail. And moreover, I don't understand how the governement can put emphasis on how social work education needs improving to improve social workers, but whats the point if those who are currently being educated are simply ending up in the dole queue? If people want to improve the social work profession it needs a serious overhaul!
Lindylo, please don't assume all NQSWs are young - I'm 40 and have been a mother and aunt for 20 years, so have plenty of life experience to bring to a role...!