I feel the whole construction of the care industry sholud be overhauled. Carers have to work long hours, yes many private companies are breaking the law, including the company i work for, breaks are few and far between, the pay is ridiculous for the responsibilities you have with medication etc. I work for a private home care company, we dont get any travelling time at all which means the time has to be took off the client, therefore their care is inadequate to their needs and you are rushing to get everything done. ?Most times having to bath/shower someone, get them dressed etc give them breakfast and give them meds also with your foot cos your hands are too busy write out their log book all in half an hour, come on no wonder the care is rubbish. I,m sick to death of hearing about all these care companies failing people, that's because they are failing there staff. Poor pay, impossible time schedules to keep to ie; no travelling time, being sent all the way across the city then back again with no traveling time, its constant pressure. WHY ISNT ANYTHING BEING DONE ABOUT THIS.... All these private companies need investigating, staff and the clients are suffering. ITS DISGUSTING I feel ashamed to be british!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to say that if one were to accumulate all the assessment and comments of front line care staff it probably would come up with a report something like this post...!
It highliights all of the most common (...and failing?) features that face domcare provision... not a bright picture.
So, what are the problems..? I'd be cute, and correct, if I said that LA's are the centre pin of the reason domcare is in such a bad way but it is more than that. Each LA approaches this issue differently but in general, we have seen a tightening of rates paid to providers - virtually no increases whatsoever over recent years - topped off just recently with funding cuts that are hitting at the core client base severely. Some, if not most, LA's are refusing to block contract anymore which brings enormous planning issues for domcare providers who have no idea what levels of work they will have at any moment in time and thus unable to plan staffing levels, recruit and train care workers and generally have a sufficient work force for client referrals. Because the climate is so tough, domcare providers will take ANY referral and then try to cover from existing staff which knocks on into all manner of provision methods. The rates paid per hour/half hour/quarter hour are approaching levels of unviability commercially and LA's, in general (except where they incorporate into contractual arrangements) REFUSE to pay domcare travelling cost and time for provision carried out and it becomes incredibly difficult to find money out of the rates paid to address this issue. It is incredible that they seem to think that care workers will stand the costs of vehicles and fuel etc. plus the very real costs of travel bewteen service users. I personally have had these discussions so many times with LA's that I've lost count... they keep on with not seeing these add on costs as being 'important' or 'real' or of any consequence...
So, who is to blame here...? The domcare companies who do not receive the monies in the first place but ought to find a way to pay their staff....or the LA's who refuse to fund the costs in the first place (generally, that is). My money is on the LA's.
Now, who assesses the service users for their care plans ..? who decides what amount of time a service user needs to remain at home independently...? Who thinks that a quarter of an hour is sufficient and has any dignity in a personal care call....? Who decides a service user is not *entitled* to a bath or shower but instead a strip wash or bed bath.....every other day...? Who insists that just about every moment of the call is recorded in writing in the care plan...? Local Authority....!!
Insofar as rostering is concerned, the pressures of time limits, the pressure of taking on service users clients, the underfunding and the need to provide some sort of emergency cover all come together to impact how calls are rostered.
In general terms, most service users want/need to do similar things at similar times. Getting up, lunch, dinner, going to bed are key times, perhaps that should fall into narrowish time slots... Thus it gets difficult to get one care worker to many service users for some of these tasks. Disgracefully, I sat in aLA called provider meeting two yeats ago where LA management told every provider that *they* (LA) considered it suitable if get up times were anywhere betwee 7.30am and 11.00am ....!! Can you begin to even comprehend what they were saying...? A service user laying in bed, possibly soiled, a number of hours after they awoke, waiting for a care worker to call to assist and carry out the task.... It was, and is, a disgraceful suggestion and one that they just considered ok...! This pressure results in rostering overlaps as domcare providers attempt to get these calls done with, sometimes and perhaps often, dire consequences.
All of this is avoidable if sufficient staff were available, companies knew what work they had to provide for at least three months in advance and rates paid reflected the responsibilities and encouraged people to join the profession AND...stay once in. As it is, extreme levels of dedication are needed to stay in this sector as a care worker and I lay that at the door of LA funding which prevents that from happening.
It really isn't the domcare companies making shed loads of money, squirrelling it away whilst treating their staff like rubbish.... it really isn't. It's about LA's who REFUSE to pay the correct rate for the care provision to their service users.
I could explain rostering in great detail but probably bore you to death...just to say, to run say, 50 - 100 + care workers you have to schedule ALL calls at the same times -usually on the hour or part thereof. The reason being that if all the calls the company make are at different times then you can not cover emergencies successfully from existing staff. Whereas, if calls start and end at the same times (without getting complicated by dividing the hour into quarters...) you will have, in principal, care workers available at certain times to *pick up* the emergencies.
Anyway, it is a complex matter but lets lay the problem at the door of those *really* responsible....and that is LA underfunding which, sadly, is getting infinitely worse as we speak....
I am truly (and sadly..) waiting for the National Newspapers to pick up on the first deaths of older vulnerable people as these cuts start to take hold and lack of suitable and sufficient care provision increases the risks associated with independent living.
The LA answer, of course, aided and abetted by central government, is to get everyone on PB's or DP's where they all but absolve themselves of any responsibility in the care provision chain. Give the client *some* money - never suffficient in my experience - then answer any challenge over the care by saying it's a matter between the client and care provider....!! It stinks.
PJ
I understand what your saying and agree with you to a degree especially when it comes to the clients social services are responsible for paying. But the private clients pay anything from £18.50 .£27.00 and hour for their care. I know the company I work for have overheads etc etc etc but most of the training we are given is goverment funded. My pay is a measly £6.24 an hr. 25p a mile fuel. No traveling time, for what we have to do on a daily basis and the extreme pressures of the job purely just getting from one client to another/ Often I have to travel six miles across the city in heavy traffic then back again to see a different client. Bad management. On my earnings and the pressure and time limits we are under, both the carer and the client suffer. I consider myself to be a good carer but I dont want to be any part of a system that is failing people, it stinks. Clients suffer, carers struggle financially and are stress out and tired, whos gaining, the owner of these private companies!!!!!!!
toddy: I understand what your saying and agree with you to a degree especially when it comes to the clients social services are responsible for paying. But the private clients pay anything from £18.50 .£27.00 and hour for their care. I know the company I work for have overheads etc etc etc but most of the training we are given is goverment funded. My pay is a measly £6.24 an hr. 25p a mile fuel. No traveling time, for what we have to do on a daily basis and the extreme pressures of the job purely just getting from one client to another/ Often I have to travel six miles across the city in heavy traffic then back again to see a different client. Bad management. On my earnings and the pressure and time limits we are under, both the carer and the client suffer. I consider myself to be a good carer but I dont want to be any part of a system that is failing people, it stinks. Clients suffer, carers struggle financially and are stress out and tired, whos gaining, the owner of these private companies!!!!!!!
Hi, not sure where you are but I am astounded at the level of (your?) private care provision costs... absolutely astounded. According to UKHCA, a study they carried out around 4 years ago, the average care costs were around £15 per hour and in view of the current climate I'm amazed that market competition isn't impacting your experience... I'd hazard a guess and say these rates are unique.... You're not transposing half hour and quarter hour rates are you...?
Insofar as training is concerned, there are subsidies and localised training providers often offer courses at heavily reduced rates but, I think that apart from the NVQ subsidy of around £70 from Skills for Care towards a total NVQ level (what was nvq, that is...) I'm not aware of any central government funding directly for training... are you sure about this?
You pay is a poor rate, in my view, for the care industry BUT.... it does differ from area to area. We struggle paying anything less than about £7.50 per hour. However, getting mileage is a big bonus. Mileage is an enormous oncost and is a very big source of discontent with LA provision. It really doesn't take many miles, even at 25p, there and back - so to speak - before you run into serious amounts of money...
The same thing applies to travelling time.... the LA's (generally) refuse to pay it. Certainly a private client won't pay it so where is it to come from...?
If we did a very quick mock up of the two clients you have where you travel 12 miles to make the two calls. Your £6.24 becomes about £7.05 with employer NI. Add on £3 for the mileage at 25p per mile = £10.05. If we factored in travelling time of say 10mins either way = £2.08p making, so far, £12.13. Company operating overheads will be in the order of 30% (ish) making a provision cost to your (any similar) employer of around £16.15. They need to turn a profit to continue to invest and develop and grow ...say, 10% net? - making overall care provision cost rate of something like £17.75.....!
Good isn't it..... your £6.25 is already nearly £18 to the company. Worse, I bet, almost without doubt, your LA are paying less than this amount. I'll suggest (without knowing where you are) the LA are paying in the order of £14.50 - £15 per hour. That is why, in my view, the real underlying problem in all of this is the serious underfunding by central and local government - which squeezes care providers, forces down rates and secure well paid employment and directly affects how the care is delivered to the service users....
The rostering is a complex issue but, as I said before, it derives from lack of security of work, thus less staff, service users referred on an ad hoc basis (usually wanting care within 48 hours) making care providers bend and twist existing systems to accommodate the referral. Trying to map out the care workers to clients for a regular basis doesn't work medium to long term..it only works immediately and short term. It degenerates into a more chaotic state because of illnees - care worker & client, respite, holidays, emergencies and a raft of other factors that impact the steady rostering as care staff are moved to cover these eventualities. This is a result of the system and funding methods rather than a result of poor performance by care providers.
I don't disagree with much of your comments and I can *feel* the emotion this job generates....but, let's really see the problem for what it is. It isn't that there are poor domcare companies out there (there may be *some* but that's not the norm) it isn't that there are care workers who are bad who couldn't care less (again, there are sure to be some but that's not the norm) and it isn't a result of difficult clients either...... the whole failings ( to whatever extent one might perceive them) are clearly and utterly under funded driven. It has been coming for the past two - three years and it is just about to get ridiculously more difficult. Don't believe those in power who tell you the failing of a major residential care home business recently was simply bad management (that's the accusations from those who refuse to provide adequate funding, of course)...it wasn't. It was because the rates that LA's pay is unsustainable and below that required to provide the necessary care & support.
Glaring headlines about domcare companies, care workers and, of late, NHS failings are funding issues.... very simply.
The figure I quoted are what private clients are paying. What im actually complaining about is I dont get any travelling time at all with no pay. ie; 1st client 7.30 till 8 am 2nd clients 8 am till 8.30 am 3rd client 8.30 am till 9.15 am and so on . We have to be in two places at once, thats where the stress lies and lack of time to care for the client there fore extremely stressed carers who havent got enough time to give the care needed. So therefore by what your saying I am entitled to travelling time with pay that would be a blessing. Is the LA aware private companies are working in this way, thats why I stated I do not want to be part of the care industry because of lack of time and the pressure trying to get to the next job on time is unbearable, we have to cut the clients time short to run on time if not all the carers on my company would be working extra hours for absolutely nothing, poor pay already so why should we. Is the company I actually working for not complying to certain rules. We can start at 7am finish at 2.30 pm be back to work for four pm till 11pm and then back in again the following morning for 7am . Is this right. This, I feel is a contribution as to why the care in the community is failing and also as you say lack of funding.
Basically carers are having a bad time of it then so get out of the job because we are took for granted and get paid a pittance therefore we should just put up with it. What I wanted to comment basically is the whole care in the community is a farse and people will suffer for this etc etc but then again its a proven fact this country doesnt care for its elderly or anyone come to that , that are no longer of any use to them ; ie people that work and pay taxes. This country should be ashamed of itself and has I said previously Im ashamed to be British. The LA should be hung!!!!!!!!1
Try contacting ACAS or similar if you feel that your Terms & Conditions of work are being breached / are unlawful.
toddy: Basically carers are having a bad time of it then so get out of the job because we are took for granted and get paid a pittance therefore we should just put up with it. What I wanted to comment basically is the whole care in the community is a farse and people will suffer for this etc etc but then again its a proven fact this country doesnt care for its elderly or anyone come to that , that are no longer of any use to them ; ie people that work and pay taxes. This country should be ashamed of itself and has I said previously Im ashamed to be British. The LA should be hung!!!!!!!!1
Look, Toddy, domcare really isn't a "farse" (sic) but it is ridden with operating issues that have never been resolved and is underpinned by an absolute lack of funding. The lack of funding is affecting everyone in the whole domcare provision, from owners/managers to care workers and ultimately clients. It's a question of where the elected decide to put our money....in health and care and education or bailing out banks that have gambled and lost to spending outrageous sums on fighting wars in far off places for no real, apparent reason. Seeing the industry from your perspective is an important one although, in my view, it is narrowed by not having abroader overview of the whole system of domcare provision. That's not a personal criticism whatsoever, merely an observation of how you are seeing and experiencing the care provision system.
I can tell you that almost without question, LA's who fund Social Care at the sharp end, so to speak, are responsible for the decisions they make locally about how provision is carried out. They do it by contractual obligations to providers, by tendering, by market shaping, by imposition of regulations and by funding. It is the LA who decide how much money they will commit to the process of taking care of people who wish to stay in their own homes as they become more vulnerable and frail. The squeeze they put into this sector is a decision they make and a decision they must live with. Ultimately, when the time comes to vote, you should make careful note of who your local councillor is, what he or she has done and what their views are on the process of domcare.
In the meantime, I can suggest that in general overall terms, the problems you face in your day to day employment are not as a result of the owners/managers of your domcare provider company. They are a direct result of years of underfunding which is being accelerated by the most recent and ongoing cuts to social care budgets. It is a disgrace, an utter disgrace.
Rupert M: Try contacting ACAS or similar if you feel that your Terms & Conditions of work are being breached / are unlawful.
...and who should she contact if she feels that her local authority are not providing that care they should be providing. The care she can see is needed but not provided because of under assessment, threshold criteria raising and general monetary cuts to the individual and overall budget....?
The terms and conditions are most likely brought on by continued and oppresssive underfunding over a long sustained period. It is not possible to carry on with this type of care level for these levels of funding. Hence, of course, most LA's (under central government directives) are forcing service users into (underfunded) PB's and DP's..... thinking and planning they are going to be saving money and avoid direct responsibilies....
Next on the ever growing list of casualites will be the Care Managers that LA's employ to oversee the whole provision to service users. It's about to get a whole lot worse...
All the while we continue with looking at the *middle ground* of domcare providers...LA's get away with quietly underfunding via all kinds of discrete and downright duplicitous methods. Let's challenge these people to understand that the whole process of domcare cannot continue for much longer under current ideology and political ethos that drives out funding and encourages diminishing care provision quality.
Toddy, you are not the first and you won't be the last care worker to leave this industry. Indeed, because of funding it is a continual problem that in itself creates service issues to service users. Turnoever of staff is quite high driven by low pay rates, working conditions and general lack of satisfaction in the job environment at the sharp end, so to speak.
I'm afraid, without getting political, this present government has an ideology and ethos that is driving people into looking after themselves.....once again. Thatcherism resurrected! WE are about to witness the dismantlement of Social Care and the NHS and we are going to hear lots about how it all needs an overhaul, it isn't working, we need to get "better value for money"....and on and on and on......
It is an ideology that is anchored in the notion that each and every one of us MUST take responsibility for ourselves and our families. Forget the wider society when it comes to being taken care of, that's not how it is going to work (according to those who support this ethos...). So we are to see people who need care & support being given money from the LA who then have to go out into the market place and buy that care and support directly. See how the philosophy works...?
What is going to happen, of course, is that the present ystem of cutting provision is going to extend to PB's and DP's as assessments turn out underfunded clients who cannot afford to by the personal care they need - never mind social activity - with the amount of Budget award they receive. It is happeneing almost in 100% of the cases I have experience in (running to some small hundreds now...) where the level of direct care provision from the LA - direct or via purchased provision - cannot be maintained with the DP or PB award. It is going to get worse and not better....I'm afraid.
Hi, am not in any way minimising the issue of LA's racing to the bottom in terms of what they pay agencies or homes - because it's true - but to argue that the Southern Cross fiasco was caused by LA's (lack of) funding and that those arguing otherwise are LA's implicated in poor funding is to ignore the role of the venture capitalists and bad management in the matter. Beat the LA's with the poor funding stick where it's deserved but let's not get carried away.
I am about to start work as a Home Carer and would like to know if there are any positive aspects to home caring, such as building relationships with s.u. because reading this, there doesn't seem to be a lot going for the job.
pops: Hi, am not in any way minimising the issue of LA's racing to the bottom in terms of what they pay agencies or homes - because it's true - but to argue that the Southern Cross fiasco was caused by LA's (lack of) funding and that those arguing otherwise are LA's implicated in poor funding is to ignore the role of the venture capitalists and bad management in the matter. Beat the LA's with the poor funding stick where it's deserved but let's not get carried away.
Right...must have missed that in this thread..... who suggested that the entire demise of Southern Cross was due to LA funding issues..?
Insofar as Care provision is concerned - residential and domiciliary - it's pretty difficult NOT to see that the lack of funding over the past 5 - 10 years together with the current and future cuts implemented and proposed is the cause of so much that is wrong with the system. Changing the system into DP and PB delivery will not solve the problems for the older vulnerable groups who are being severely hit by these actions.
So, let's get carried away by the lack of funding and the disgraceful cuts ....why not?
Reason: I am about to start work as a Home Carer and would like to know if there are any positive aspects to home caring, such as building relationships with s.u. because reading this, there doesn't seem to be a lot going for the job.
:0)
Of course there are aspects to the job that are interesting and fulfilling...depends on what your motivations are......
If it's solely money then probably best look for work elsewhere... it's always been towards the bottom of the ladder in remuneration terms.
But, in terms of actually making this society and community work it's a key job. No-one will tell you that, of course, and I know from experience just what a difference visits each day make to the lives of some older people who are alone, and frail and without help and support generally. The possibility to change the lives of people who need it most, to develop relationships that support and enhance lives, to be the security and constancy each day...these are the factors that prevail... it's not for everyone and often the underlying regulations seem nonsensical and pointless.
But.... service users are human beings and deserving of care and dignity and support and it can be extremely rewarding to be at the sharp end of this provision. Take the opportunity and see if it works for you...
I agree with everything that's been said here about the need to respect and value the people who provide care to vulnerable people in their own homes, but can I please make a point about language.
I have worked as a care assistant in a residential unit myself. I am also my Dad's carer. As I see it, the term "carer" means a relative or friend who provides care for someone out of love,friendship or duty - not because it's their job. We are the people who don't get paid at all for the "work" we put in, don't get to clock off at the end of our "shift", don't get supervision and aren't covered by the working time directive or health and safety legislation...
The people who come in to support my Dad in his home when I can't - say because I'm at work - are marvellous. They have formed brilliant relationships with Dad and with the rest of the family, they work skillfully and well and they have transformed the quality of life not just for Dad but for all of us. To the person who is wondering whether to enter the profession I would say that the opportunity to do some real good is there and the job is valuable and unique. But please think carefully before using the term "carer" instead of "care worker".
Hope this doesn't offend or give the impression that I don't value care workers or the contribution they make I have been one myself and I do. But, to me,being a "carer" is a different thing to being a "care worker".
Caring Geek: I agree with everything that's been said here about the need to respect and value the people who provide care to vulnerable people in their own homes, but can I please make a point about language. I have worked as a care assistant in a residential unit myself. I am also my Dad's carer. As I see it, the term "carer" means a relative or friend who provides care for someone out of love,friendship or duty - not because it's their job. We are the people who don't get paid at all for the "work" we put in, don't get to clock off at the end of our "shift", don't get supervision and aren't covered by the working time directive or health and safety legislation... The people who come in to support my Dad in his home when I can't - say because I'm at work - are marvellous. They have formed brilliant relationships with Dad and with the rest of the family, they work skillfully and well and they have transformed the quality of life not just for Dad but for all of us. To the person who is wondering whether to enter the profession I would say that the opportunity to do some real good is there and the job is valuable and unique. But please think carefully before using the term "carer" instead of "care worker". Hope this doesn't offend or give the impression that I don't value care workers or the contribution they make I have been one myself and I do. But, to me,being a "carer" is a different thing to being a "care worker".
Have worked just over a month and cannot believe the esteem which I am not held in by my employers.
The work is great but when I am expected to collect and deliver the weeks timesheets, to the office, No pay or milage, I start to think I am being exploited. Next, on a day off I get a text saying Team Meeting---- everyone is expected to attend. Again no pay or milage. Have to go into office at the end of the week to collect my Rota for the following week, no pay or milage I am expected to do it during my break. I say, can you fax it because my breaks are the only chance I have to catch up, to get to my appointments less than an hour late and they say no, they prefer it that way.
So far, not so good and this company attitude will force me to move on. Who cares, plenty out there to replace me.
My partner who was a SW says it was a big deal if people didn't get the requested coloured diary. I am given one uniform and expected to buy the rest myself. (I wouldn't bother but we are told we must always look smart.) Given this abuse of my time and the cost of fuel I must surely be getting below the minimum wage. Have been in touch with UNISON who sympathise but offer no solution, saying it is a well known problem.
Reason: Have worked just over a month and cannot believe the esteem which I am not held in by my employers. The work is great but when I am expected to collect and deliver the weeks timesheets, to the office, No pay or milage, I start to think I am being exploited. Next, on a day off I get a text saying Team Meeting---- everyone is expected to attend. Again no pay or milage. Have to go into office at the end of the week to collect my Rota for the following week, no pay or milage I am expected to do it during my break. I say, can you fax it because my breaks are the only chance I have to catch up, to get to my appointments less than an hour late and they say no, they prefer it that way. So far, not so good and this company attitude will force me to move on. Who cares, plenty out there to replace me. My partner who was a SW says it was a big deal if people didn't get the requested coloured diary. I am given one uniform and expected to buy the rest myself. (I wouldn't bother but we are told we must always look smart.) Given this abuse of my time and the cost of fuel I must surely be getting below the minimum wage. Have been in touch with UNISON who sympathise but offer no solution, saying it is a well known problem.
Yep. Almost across the board. Reason why it's like that......??
Quite simply that LA's will not pay the commercially viable rate for the job, are not terribly interested in job conditions of care workers, almost entirely refuse to pay travel costs to providers, and generally think that the *market* will produce better care for less money.....! Cutting calls from one hour to half and quarter of an hour visits (producing a completely out of proportion call cost, mileage, time for the money paid for the visit...) meaning a care worker earns around £2 for the 1/4 hour visit, £4 for the half hour visit is ridiculous. Failure to commission in blocks means care providers cannot pay salaries generally as they do not know where, or when, the next job is going to come from.
Stop looking at the employer and start looking at the cause of the problem....getting worse as Councils cut their Social Care budgets. LA's will not pay the commercial rate for the job. Period.
Reason: Have been in touch with UNISON who sympathise but offer no solution, saying it is a well known problem.
Have been in touch with UNISON who sympathise but offer no solution, saying it is a well known problem.
says it all Im afraid - how on earth do they justify their existence?
really informative posts youve made here PJ and I hope they enlighten a few people who think the the LA can do no wrong or its all the private companies faults.
Completely agree it will get worse and completely agree that its the LA's that are the driver - and sadly will only stop when either working conditios become so poor that no-one takes the job or when people die....
it would be really useful if commubnity care did a piece on this scandal
Hi I'mthe sort of Home carer we need more of a Person also an SU I have the same wants and needs as anybody else. You sound just the sort of person we need as SU's need. I employ my own staff as PersonaL assistants to support me with personal and all other forms of support for me to maintain an indepedent life,but basically whatever you are called there is so much more to being a carer than all that has been said. above.
Take it from me as a person who used to be the carer to give dignity to the SU have a budding relationship The Su sees you respect them as individuals I could go on and DO NOT be put off we need people like you
Keeping kids out of care is a major motivator for children's services social workers.
Home carers perform a similar function with the elderly and infirm.
Social worker would not put up with being told to attend team meeting on day off, with no pay or mileage, why should home carer be expected to?
Why the great gap in pay?
IA or wipe someone's bum?
IA every time for me.
One age group should not be more deserving than another.
I have to agree with your comments, what do unison actually do for the homecarers and their working conditions ?????
toddy: I have to agree with your comments, what do unison actually do for the homecarers and their working conditions ?????
Are you filtering out posts that don't reinforce your ideas...?
What exactly would you want "unison" to do for you....?
Where do you think the money to pay you travelling, mileage, 'over time' , bank holiday rates, etc., ....all come from?
Do you think your employer is pocketing zillions while paying you zilch...? The problem is endemic and goes right to the heart of LA social care. When (and if they still do..) Local Authorities had direct care teams providing care & support directly to service users, the employed care workers had a whole raft of employment benefits, mileage, full sick pay, good pension scheme and enhanced salaries ( or enhanced wage rates). The average cost to the LA for each hour of this care provision was in the region of £26.
As time has gone by, LA's have outsourced much of the care provision and it is generally now in the private sector. This transfer did not see anything like the funding for care provision rates by comparison and though differing wildly across the country, the hourly rates have been driven down to anything between £11 - £16 per hour gross. (I've seen rates as low as £9.50 in one area). Saving over half the costs to the LA approximately. Nothing for mileage, nothing for travel time, nothing extra for overtime, nothing extra for bank holidays and so on. They refuse to acknowledge that these are commercial factors impacting care provision and do something about it. Namely pay for it in the way they paid their employed staff.
I've eben seen auctions for social care provision contracts about 5 years ago where rates to carry out an hour care provision visit reached £( per hour by companies scrambling to find work for their employees. Can you beging to imagine what sort of wages and working conditions resulted from such ridiculous rates of pay. Can you imagine the level of qualified staff, the level of management, supervision, quality, service and.............CARE!!! at these rates of payments by the LA to a provider..? Can you?
And you know what...? the LA concerned could not see the futility of their actions and the whole chain of events that were being unleashed on service users through care workers, care providers and constant turnover of discontented staff...?
Many LA's refuse to commission (instead now driving service users into PB's and DP's) which makes it impossible for care providers to either pay salaries or have staff waiting around for jobs to arrive. Providers get paid (poorly and uncommercially) for each hour/half/quarter hour visit they carry out. No more, no less. Where do you think ther money comes from to provide for the aspects you talk about..? The LA.
What are Unison going to do with them....? The answer, I'm afraid is nothing.
The domcare providers have a well respected association called UKHCA who work towards getting information out, approaching central and local government and many other aspects of domcare provision across the country. They achieve very little, sadly, because the people who make the decisions won't listen..... Talk about saving costs and money and you'll have an ear....talk about improving wages, conditions etc and everyone suddenly goes deaf!
oops:
should have been......
I've even seen auctions for social care provision contracts about 5 years ago where tendered rates to carry out an hour care provision visit reached £9 ( per hour) by companies scrambling to find work for their employees.
PJ: toddy: I have to agree with your comments, what do unison actually do for the homecarers and their working conditions ????? Are you filtering out posts that don't reinforce your ideas...? What exactly would you want "unison" to do for you....? Where do you think the money to pay you travelling, mileage, 'over time' , bank holiday rates, etc., ....all come from? Do you think your employer is pocketing zillions while paying you zilch...? The problem is endemic and goes right to the heart of LA social care. When (and if they still do..) Local Authorities had direct care teams providing care & support directly to service users, the employed care workers had a whole raft of employment benefits, mileage, full sick pay, good pension scheme and enhanced salaries ( or enhanced wage rates). The average cost to the LA for each hour of this care provision was in the region of £26. As time has gone by, LA's have outsourced much of the care provision and it is generally now in the private sector. This transfer did not see anything like the funding for care provision rates by comparison and though differing wildly across the country, the hourly rates have been driven down to anything between £11 - £16 per hour gross. (I've seen rates as low as £9.50 in one area). Saving over half the costs to the LA approximately. Nothing for mileage, nothing for travel time, nothing extra for overtime, nothing extra for bank holidays and so on. They refuse to acknowledge that these are commercial factors impacting care provision and do something about it. Namely pay for it in the way they paid their employed staff. I've eben seen auctions for social care provision contracts about 5 years ago where rates to carry out an hour care provision visit reached £( per hour by companies scrambling to find work for their employees. Can you beging to imagine what sort of wages and working conditions resulted from such ridiculous rates of pay. Can you imagine the level of qualified staff, the level of management, supervision, quality, service and.............CARE!!! at these rates of payments by the LA to a provider..? Can you? And you know what...? the LA concerned could not see the futility of their actions and the whole chain of events that were being unleashed on service users through care workers, care providers and constant turnover of discontented staff...? Many LA's refuse to commission (instead now driving service users into PB's and DP's) which makes it impossible for care providers to either pay salaries or have staff waiting around for jobs to arrive. Providers get paid (poorly and uncommercially) for each hour/half/quarter hour visit they carry out. No more, no less. Where do you think ther money comes from to provide for the aspects you talk about..? The LA. What are Unison going to do with them....? The answer, I'm afraid is nothing. The domcare providers have a well respected association called UKHCA who work towards getting information out, approaching central and local government and many other aspects of domcare provision across the country. They achieve very little, sadly, because the people who make the decisions won't listen..... Talk about saving costs and money and you'll have an ear....talk about improving wages, conditions etc and everyone suddenly goes deaf! PJ
I would encourage home carers to sound out their colleagues and join en bloc, worker power begins with the workers. Got to start somewhere.
You really are not listening are you....?
Clout to hit who....?
At the top of any profit making organisation are the people who decide on the distribution of wealth.
I will listen when you come up with some researched facts, like how much J Andrew Goodsell takes home.
Then again I might not as your defeatist, accepting attitude could make me throw up.
Big in SAGA!
http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/905149051
Shirack: At the top of any profit making organisation are the people who decide on the distribution of wealth. I will listen when you come up with some researched facts, like how much J Andrew Goodsell takes home. Then again I might not as your defeatist, accepting attitude could make me throw up.
Oh dear.....
Rupert M: Big in SAGA! http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/905149051
Yeah...... quite what he's got to do with social care delivery though, I have absolutely no idea....
PJ: Rupert M: Big in SAGA! http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/905149051 Yeah...... quite what he's got to do with social care delivery though, I have absolutely no idea.... PJ
I'm listening........... to what now is clearly nonsense and drivel.
I don't "pretend" anything. I'm speaking with, clearly, a good deal more knowledge, experience and understanding of this than you.......
Enough now, I've got better things to do with my time than argue with some numpty on some forum about issues they have no idea about whatsoever.
(tip: stick to the issues, not the person)
PJ: I'm listening........... to what now is clearly nonsense and drivel. I don't "pretend" anything. I'm speaking with, clearly, a good deal more knowledge, experience and understanding of this than you....... Enough now, I've got better things to do with my time than argue with some numpty on some forum about issues they have no idea about whatsoever. (tip: stick to the issues, not the person) PJ
Hope you have a nice day.
Oh do be sensible.
Goodsell cannot impact social care provision in any meaningful way...if at all.
This kind of red herring, straw man argument technique are well trodden and evade the issue.
You talk about the "big picture" without understanding how social care provision works, top to bottom. Clearly spotlighting some individual who is not part of the process of the social care provision system (other than he is Director of a domcare company, amongst other things) shows that clearly.
Central government provide funds for Local Authorities. It is calculated and paid according to whatever system the prevailing political masters wish to impose. Along with that funding, Local Authorities raise money from taxes and charges for services in the community giving an overall budget for the Local Authority area. The elected Council then make an overall budget decision (dependent on factors to wide to discuss here) and allocate a sum of money for Social Care within the area of their jurisdiction. That sum of money is then *allocated*, usually, to a Director of Social Services (or similar) who decides how he/she is going to implement and apply the allotted money for providng the services of Social Care. Some authorities might make tweaks to this and fund, say childrens social care from a different budget but....the principal remains. Social Care is delivered by finances deriving from central government funding, local authority taxation and charges and political decision about how to spend the overall amount of money available.
Then the real fun starts as Social Care management start to make decisions about where and how they will fund social care. What levels of charges they will make, what thresholds they impose for inclusion, or exclusion, from Socially funded care, how they assess, who assesses, what they assess and much more...very much more.
See anywhere up to this point where someone like Goodsell, has any influence? That's because he doesn't....
He is merely a private provider, no more, no less.
Then the Director of Social Services (probably with Council Cabinet approval and Legal Department) will set a rate paid to private care providers for their area of jurisdiction. This will differ across the country because of the budget available, the historical rate paid, unique macro economics, political values and much more. Private care provision has been shown to be considerably less than 'in house' direct provision in terms of bottom line costs to a LA budget. There are many reports on these costs and the reasons why it is so but, it is clear that the private sector do supply social care provision at a cost below direct LA provision. This has led to LA's moving care provision from 'in house' to the private sector and benefitting from reduced costs.
How LA's do this differs across the country, some commission, some don't, some run provider lists, some don't, some even carry out reduced in house provision services running alongside commissioned provision. Most are now moving into PB conversions to meet central governemnt targets for DP's and PB's.
The rate set by the LA is the rate offered to private providers (and to the companies goodsell Manages and Directs) and is unaffectable by any single private provider. Even UKHCA who represent domcare across the UK cannot impact it. What they can, and have done, is to collate all the rates paid to it's memebers across the country to show and highlight the differences.
Apart from a general cutting of costs by LA's generally over the past two to three years (in earnest, but generally over at least five years) below the line cuts have taken place by 're-assessing' service users and cutting call visit times down to almost nonsensical levels. There is NO dignity in a 15 minute call, for example.
These are pushed out into the private sector where applied rates the LA have set down are applied to reduced call times. No one, goodsell even, can affect these rates.
The artes, of which I have experience and evidence of for many, many LA's differ but in general are not commercially viable for a care provider to undertake and sustain with any modicum of quality of care and support to SU's. La's, almost entirely REFUSE to accept that there are operational cost involved in making a care provision visit.... apart from administration (CQC compliance et al) mileage and travel time ARE part of the costs involved. Refusing to pay those cost to a care provider means the care worker is also denied the reimbursement. HMRC assist in paying 45p per mile for travel costs (claimed annually) but travel time is not paid. If it is paid by the employer then it comes (almsot entirely) from the already reduced care provision rate which in many, many, if not most cases, is unsustainable.
The bottom line (cause I'm getting bored of writing this basic staff...) is that L:A's are underfunding social care provision in the domcare sector (residential care sector also. witness recent Court cases in Liverpool and elsewhere..) and that is the KEY factor in why the industry employs people under the conditions that largely exist. Talks of Unison and union action against employers, who are, after all, merely *agents* (hence the word Agency) for the LA are completely misplaced and inappropriate. Oh, and they won't work. Why, because the money has been squeezed out of care provision by the unsustainable and non commercial rates paid ........and pressure to increase costs to those care providers (wages, overheads, working conditions etc.)will ultimately lead to the companies ceasing to exist... replaced by companies facing exactly the same problems.
Until the root cause of the problem is seen for what it is there will be no answer for care workers. Your apparent assertion that you see the big picture (or, by inference that I do not) appears to be falling short of...well .......the big picture!
PJ None so blind.
This is not a linear process though PJ.
Much like it is the manufacturers of safety products that campaign, lobby and donate to politicians to get legislation passed that requires businesses to install their products...Just as Private/Public Finance Initiatives were invented and suggested by the Private finaciers, before lobbying for the creation of legislation to make it happen...
The shift to private care came because Private providers CAN pay bottom line wages....have minimal terms and conditions, exploit the temporary contract market to avoid sickness pay, pensions and redundancy/maternity obligations, and still make a profit for the shareholders.
I would suggest that the shift to private care, the exploitation of carers, the smoke and mirrors of abusive care that gets past inspections and therefore is cheaper, only came about because people like the aforementioned guy initially went to politicians and suggested the idea.They Do have influence.
The processes that you have describe miss out that loopback to what influenced the shift in the first place and how SOMEBODY has to be making money for this sorry state of affairs to have come about in the first place.
Lets face it...how many senior managers, directors CEOs involved in LAs have investments in the private care side of things?
I can name one organisation that was set up about 12 years ago by a cartel of eight or nine such people from a range of neighbouring councils......strangely enough, their councils use the services, though mechanisms were put in place to make it clear that they had no evidenceable influence over the contract awarding process. This was at a time when they were the people who were in consultation ( on behalf of LAs) with the government about how provision of services might be made cheaper to the tax payer.
This is not an isolated case.There are very prominent figures in the upper echelons of the Social Work establishment who have such business interests.
There are more links and connections behind policy than the public would care to imagine.
"The purchase of the UK’s largest Homecare provider by Acromas ( Goodsells company)signals its intent to be major player in the market as it seeks to combine Aliied’s branch network with that of Nestor’s to create a new company with over 5% of the UK’s £5BN Homecare market. Although the top 10 agencies by sales only account for 16% of this market, there are some similarities with the much maligned residential care sector as the market begins to concentrate, with fewer and fewer agencies controlling more and more of the industry."
So, if one company gets that big, we can see how much of a problem Southern Cross caused LA and govt . ....so can you imagine that the owner of such a company would have no lobbying influence?
Look what happened with Railtrak ( Now Network rail) Because they had the rail infrastructure monopoly, they were able to pay massive returns to their shareholders then go cap in hand to the government saying they needed more subsidy to keep in operation.
The government were over a barrel and kept baling them out then watching the bale-outs go to shareholders dividends. The government justified it saying "It is in no-ones interest to have a bankrupt national rail system, or one that is forced to stop operating."
Which all links back to the care industry, and the potential to get rich from the taxpayer, at the same time as treating your staff..and possibly service users.. in a way which would stimulate Dickens to write a new novel!
Shirack: PJ None so blind.
What an absolute waste of time attempting to debate and discuss issues of which you have absolutely no idea or knowledge of...
plonk