Not if we can help it.
BASW is doing everything it can - through political pressure, legal measures, our own constitutional change and good old rational argument to help bring about the independent, effective and sustainable College that social work needs.
Once Ministers give the word we'll be round the table helping to sort it out.
In the meantime we are going to continue to develop and grow - independent and challenging with a formidable commitment to the relevance and importance of the social work profession - and the best value for money anywhere.
Happy Christmas
Hilton
and with one bound.........he was free
Hilton: Not if we can help it. BASW is doing everything it can - through political pressure, legal measures, our own constitutional change and good old rational argument to help bring about the independent, effective and sustainable College that social work needs. Once Ministers give the word we'll be round the table helping to sort it out. Surely Hilton is confusing 25 December with 1 April with this contribution. In the meantime we are going to continue to develop and grow - independent and challenging with a formidable commitment to the relevance and importance of the social work profession - and the best value for money anywhere. Happy Christmas Hilton
Surely Hilton is confusing 25 December with 1 April with this contribution.
miserableiam: Surely Hilton is confusing 25 December with 1 April with this contribution.
Shirack:
Snuck up, hypocrite, denial? I suggest you calm down, take a deep breath and make an attempt at coherence. You really should not trawl through posts trying to spread bile. Try to be objective if you can old chap.
miserableiam: Shirack: Snuck up on you since 9.29 did it. You can add hypocrite now. And that name! Think you are in denial. Snuck up, hypocrite, denial? I suggest you calm down, take a deep breath and make an attempt at coherence. You really should not trawl through posts trying to spread bile. Try to be objective if you can old chap.
If you don't like being attacked don't attack me.
Anyway, to get back to Mr. Dawson. Have agreed with the last couple of things you have said but you have so far to go to become credible. I know it is not possible to appeal to all SWs because they are such a diverse bunch but given your numbers you need to research and aim for a consensus that is of a broader base.
Or does mass appeal not appeal to you?
By being elitist BASW renders itself impotent.
Truth as they might say is in the eye of the beholder. Sad thing Shirack is that you simply can not abide being disagreed with so respond by "attacking" and veering off topic. Don't be so blinkered because that certainly wont get the blinkers off. Moderator may I suggest a potential bickering alert here.
Hilton, what you say may be the case but what BASW has failed to grasp is that the vast majority of practicing social workers do not trust it to represent our interest and concerns. I certainly do not regard the constant claims of democracy and transparency as credible. BASW to me is a parody of that by dint of its constant sniping and belittling of other voices and organizations. BASW does not represent social workers as a whole and most certainly is not the sole voice of social work. If people like me had confidence that BASW truly aspired to be an inclusive body able to ’tolerate’ dissenting voices then we may imbue it with credibility. I find your cosying to Tory ministers by pandering to their anti-trade union prejudices most distasteful for a start. Whether you are elitist or not does not concern me whether you are credible does
Shirack and misereableiam - please refrain from bickering on this thread.
Also, I'm moving this thread to the social work profession section - the Notices section is where we make notices about CareSpace, technical issues etc
CareSpace support
miserableiam: Hilton, what you say may be the case but what BASW has failed to grasp is that the vast majority of practicing social workers do not trust it to represent our interest and concerns. I certainly do not regard the constant claims of democracy and transparency as credible. BASW to me is a parody of that by dint of its constant sniping and belittling of other voices and organizations. BASW does not represent social workers as a whole and most certainly is not the sole voice of social work. If people like me had confidence that BASW truly aspired to be an inclusive body able to ’tolerate’ dissenting voices then we may imbue it with credibility. I find your cosying to Tory ministers by pandering to their anti-trade union prejudices most distasteful for a start. Whether you are elitist or not does not concern me whether you are credible does
Yer but.......was somebody wrong then??
http://www.communitycare.co.uk/Articles/22/12/2011/117898/college-of-social-work-suspends-deal-with-unison.htm
I mean......to the BASW detractors this was all kosher once....and would have gone through but for them....were they wrong then....and was it in Social Workers best interests for that arrangement to go ahead?
And now should you be campaigning for the Unison College tie up to be re- established and go ahead?
And in terms of moral high ground and integrity....lets not look at BASW, I have read the views..but where does the College stand now....ostensibly crawling back to BASW for its claimed near 15000 members?
I would like to see if BASW tell them to take a hike...or would that be against the common spirit of cooperation to compromise and make the best college possible?
I'm not sure where the appropriate route lies at the moment!
Hilton:Social Work is as diverse as the people we serve. However social work is a global profession with fundamental principles based in universal concepts of human rights and skills of working with people which apply the world over. One reason BASW developed the concept of a College of Social Work was because we recognised the need for a fresh impetus and a new organisation which could engage every trade union and association with social worker membership. We want to have something to which every social worker in the UK would want to belong and this remains our goal for 2012. As it stands the best way of developing the independent, UK wide, social worker led, federal, democratic and effective College that social work needs is to join independent, UK wide, social worker led, increasingly federal and democratic BASW. We grow in effectiveness with every social worker who joins us and for the last 3 years we have been growing at the rate of 1000 per year. Those allegations of elitism are as old as the hills. I suspect that they never applied. They certainly don't now Hilton
I was a member of BASW for about 10 years at the beginning of my career, I worked in the muck and grime. As a student I really appreciated SWT but the more I got in to work the more I realised how out of touch the organisation had become. I put it down to an obsession with becoming a fully fledged profession and articles aimed at fascinating case studies. This to me was elitism.
Can you put me right as I could be a prospective recruit.
Thanks for that, I didn't agree with the cosying bit, as I read what you had said the other day.
OK.
So in terms of value for money, how the heck are the now non-unison college offering membership for £60 without any joint Union subsidy?
Even with the Union proposal, they were going to split the £270 50/50 which makes £130 a piece.
How can they run on £60 a member if ( as Community care article stated) they needed the Unison link-up to be independent ONCE THE GOVT £5M RUNS OUT IN 2012.
Are they running on fresh air? Is a putititve charity subsidising them ( SCIE)
Or has the government given them another subsidy; or commissioned them for a fee to take on more goverment work?
I think prospective members need to know before they join, whether they will become the owners of an insolvent college....or whether they will be asked for a whole lot more money later on, or if they are in bed with an unknown paymaster and vested interest.
Hmm, its a thought, but even including their advice and representation staff, BASW have less staff ( I think about 40 last report I read), cheaper premises, and more business done by members than the College of SW.( 70 staff at even 20k per year will cost £1.8 m with oncosts. thats 30,000 members at £60 a pop, before you have buildings,utilities equipment, or a website even....I reckon 50,000 members would be needed to operate very frugally@ £60 a pop)
I'm guessing that the A&R stuff is not costing BASW £180 per member, and that is the difference between £60 for TCSW and £240 ( five years qualified and over) for BASW.
I was a BASW member before they started the A&R service about 14 years ago, and I didn't notice any significant increase in my membership subscriptions (and that included the insurance premium for the £2m now £5m professional indemnity insurance ....presumably Unison underwrites itself for that with its much bigger membership numbers, but that means Unison has a vested interest in not losing too much money and this will influence decisions about which cases to back to fight in court; which is different from an insurance scheme.)
If Hilton is still following this , maybe he or BASW support can give us some idea..?
How can they run?
The College was going to be a new legal body by April, then I understand it will ask members to vote on what kind of Union representation they want. So I am sure they can financially manage till then. What if The College just does the same as BASW and says you are now a member log in and tick a box and you will then get Union representation (UNISON/GMB/UNITE/SWU etc) for free, with any Union that has an agreement to split College and Union dues 50 50?
BASW has an annual turnover of £3m and employs 50 staff
We have 4 offices across the UK some of which produce commercial income and have substantial royalties notably from our ownership of BJSW and significant financial reserves built up over decades.
We have just been audited and received a clean bill of health.
Our 2011/12 Budget is based on an average income of £185 per head from 14,000 members. Membership has since increased to 14,300 plus.
BASW is a well run organisation which returns regular surpluses which are reinvested in developing new services and supporting the continued growth of the organisation.
It is a very significant asset which is owned by social workers and accounts to its members annually.
BASW receives no subsidy from any Government or local authority or any outside interest.
BASW subsidises student membership but this is a conscious and responsible decision made in the interests of the profession and the long term interests of the company. BASW could / would not provide free or subsidised membership at the level envisaged by the College as this would obviously threaten the long term viability of the Association.
I look forward to the democratic vote on Union services for College of Social Work members and maybe by then BASW & College will have reached an agreement over who owns the College word for the benefit of 128,000 potential members.
Phew that was quick!! Thanks!
And I have just remembered how the college will "manage".
They being rewarded by being allowed to cream a few £mill out of the UK student bursary or placement budget that they will administer on behalf of the government aren't they....?
I'd better wind my neck in about this anyway, because I should be tring to be more "solution focussed" in the interests of the profession, rather than recriminational
It does seem that developments are slightly more open to inflence from the wider profession again. Lets hope!
BASW letter to College chairs
http://www.basw.co.uk/news/basw-letter-to-college-chairs/
BASW , in my opinion, would never have gone to Judicial Review because they would have been proven to be little different to the SCIE College - i.e. SCIE College and UNISON membership; BASW College and Social Workers Union membership both with the proviso of an 'opt in / opt out' option.
This latest letter from BASW to the SCIE College does little or nothing to resolve the tensions - the latter is probably unable to proceed without the UNISON tie in and the former without being able to massively increase its membership base to obtain the 51% figure required.
The war of words continues as they continue to tear the profession apart.
Tis the season of good faith resolutions and Company Name Tribunals over who 'owns' the name 'College of Social Work' registered by BASW on 10/02/2010. So yes, of course the dispute will continue into 2012 and all those loaded Dice will have run their course. The College Membership Offers in full: 2158.TCSWFinalisesMembershipOffer.pdf
Choices, Choices, Choices that might provoke further disputes:
Are you an independent Social Worker?
Need public liability insurance?Some options:
£90 p.a. from The College of Social Work
£180 p.a. from BASW
http://www.communitycare.co.uk/carespace/forums/get-half-price-public-liability-insurance-12418.aspx
Sorry to be a 'cynic' but givebnthat BASW will not tell us how many of its members are practicing registered social workers, it seems a little lazy of HIlton to refer to it as being "owned by social workers"
miserableiam: Sorry to be a 'cynic' but givebnthat BASW will not tell us how many of its members are practicing registered social workers, it seems a little lazy of HIlton to refer to it as being "owned by social workers"
Yes, and I am sure the dispute generated by BASW doing an all England Tour of Colleges and Universities got some students to cough up the £4.21 per month BASW membership subs.
Hi! Our UK (not just England) University tour was really successful this year. We were telling students about BASW and about latest development and issues in social work and many students signed up. Anything wrong with that? About 10% of BASW members are student social workers and 10% independent social workers. Of the rest, in my experience as a staff member who meets many members, most are frontline social workers or first line managers. Others are academics or work for Skills for Care, SCIE, CQC etc. Very few are senior managers and I don’t think we have any Directors. We have some members who are retired social workers. If you think we don’t have enough social workers, please join!
As the UNISON deal and BASW's possibly opportunistic registration of 'College of Social Work Ltd' are had been are the main articles of bad faith in this rift, might be worth reading this joint UNISON College statement 8715.UnisonandTCSWStatementofIntentDec2011.pdf By the way, has BASW's virtual Social Workers Union formally submitted an application to be affiliated with the TUC?
JoSoPhine: As the UNISON deal and BASW's possibly opportunistic registration of 'College of Social Work Ltd' are had been are the main articles of bad faith in this rift, might be worth reading this joint UNISON College statement 8715.UnisonandTCSWStatementofIntentDec2011.pdf By the way, has BASW's virtual Social Workers Union formally submitted an application to be affiliated with the TUC?
You guys can't have it both ways!
You can't say that BASW is running exactly the same deal withits SWU as TCSW wanted to do with Unison so they have no integrity;
AND point out that BASWs Union is "Virtual" ; "In-House", takes no-one but BASW members isn't in the TUC, ( all of which incidently is compatible wit BASWS claim to be independent and subsidised by no-one)
Or.....is it just me?
And I thought it had been established once and for all that BASW registered the name "College of Social Work" in some form long before the internet, almost 40 years ago, but never used it because the opentoed sandal whole grained kaftan wearing rump of members at that time thought he title was elitist and preferrred the inclusiveness and mutuallity of " Association"
Therefore I think you should stop portaying the more recent attempts to retain that ownership in the current business media as opportunistic and retributive.
It may be strategic, and even machiavellian,......but taking a first notion to own the title wasn't triggered by TCSW purloining it!
TCSW incrementally rolling out and replicating every detail of BASWs business model ( except the union) and announcing they would do it cheaper with magic money; at the same time as ostensibly pretending to be negotiating a mutual merger with equal partners, might be seen by some as a better example of "bad faith".
JoSophine; You had gone quiet for a while; have you been away?
I had thrown away my blood pressure tablets too!
Doh!
College' membership - a personal view
If it goes ahead I'll be taking up the opportunity to join the 'College' next Tuesday.
That certainly isn't because I believe any of the ' services' offered or any of the cheap deals being promoted are likely to be real or sustainable. In fact it's because of my BASW membership which incidentally entitles me to the support of the best Advice and Representation team in the business - that I'm able to take this on.
In fact without BASW the 'College' would by now have sacrificed its independence to its still favoured deal with Unison - and there wouldn't be anything for me to join.
Nor is it because I approve of very much that the 'College' has done.
Launching a membership scheme when you don't even own the ' College' name and without the backing of any of the trade unions, BASW/SWU and many other professional associations is about as half baked as it gets.
Using state sponsorship to try to undermine those free, democratic organisations and replace them with a puppet administration is the sort of thing that used to go on in Eastern Europe.
Publicising your 'free' offer without noting that it doesn't include trade union/ advice and representation services is a trap for the unwary and downright irresponsible when social workers need the very best support.
Nevertheless and however they've tried to qualify it membership of the 'College' should provide a democratic opportunity. So while my organisation BASW is hopefully working with all others to help create the real College that social work needs from the outside I also intend to work away on the inside to the same ends.
Social Work is my profession. A proper College of Social Work should belong to social workers not to anyone else and when membership brings me the right to use my voice and my vote that's what I intend to do.
If you're a member of BASW/ SWU or another trade union or professional organisation I hope you'll join me in what I'm going to legitimately and democratically try to do. If you're not a member of anything I strongly recommend that you get the protection of BASW around you before you join the 'College' but please get involved too. It's our profession and it will be our College by the time we're through.
Working together from the inside let's open up a second front in the effort to create the UK wide, independent, powerful College led by and accountable to social workers that social work needs and social workers want to see.
BASW to join The College of Social Work as fifth column democratic "second front" for the good of the social worker and BASW Kim II Sung mark II the CEOs cut.
Follow the moneyPeace be upon this earth.
Happy Year Zero
Beware of those that sign off with one name, don't use the word "some" and purport to speak for us all.
Peter.
Well we all now know where Hilton stands - subversive without and subversive within - yes, sounds like BASW really is standing up for honesty and integrity. IF BASW's CEO / leader of the Social Workers Union is happy to join an Organisation he basically paints as corrupt from the outset then he gets what he deserves - and vice versa if they accept his application which, ethically, they may struggle with.