I have a friend (not someone close, more of a casual social aquaintance who is not involved with services in any way, either as a professional or as a service user) who has recently started a new relationship. He's 28; she's either 17 or 18, and she said last night in the pub (quietly, not shouted around) that she's in the fostering system. Once she's 18, is she technically no longer in the fostering remit? Can people be fostered as an adult? I've always thought it was 'adult placement' after 18?
It's none of my business (being reasonable, up to a point), but can someone please outline how this situation would differ whether she's 17 or 18? I don't work with children's services or fostering so I'm just looking for someone to say whether this is on dodgy ground.
And yes, I say again, I know it's none of my business. Call this a mini-quest for reassurance.
'He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master' - HST.
Once she's 18, she'll technically no longer be in care, as any care order granted expires on a child's 18th birthday. However, it is very likely that she will begin receiving support from the local authority's leaving care team under the Children (Leaving Care) Act 2000 at this point. Part of this support may be ensuring that the girl is in suitable accommodation - this may be a supported lodgings placement with a foster carer or in semi-independent accommodation such as a YMCA.
I hope that helps a little. If anyone in a leaving care team can shed more light/correct me if I'm wrong on this, please do!
She could be anything up to 19/20
The best way to get somebody's age is to ask them.
I'm a bit confused... Why is it potentially on dodgy ground? If she's over 16, then she's old enough to consent to have sex with anyone she wants. It only becomes an issue if its with someone whom is employed / allocated to be in a professional position of trust...which I assume from what you say... that this guy is not?
The guy is not in a position of trust, but there are historic concerns about this kinda stuff with him, i.e. friendly with young-ish vulnerable women. I take all advice re her age on board - I'm not going to ask her directly, as I'm unlikely to see her regularly. Basic detective work on t'internet (via FaceSpaceBook)says that she's 17 (and not aware of basic privacy settings). I was wondering about whether she is continuing to be 'fostered' post-18 (or under APS?).
It was more the vulnerability aspect which I'm concerned about - I guess the media horror stories are affecting me more than I thought, in my mind I'm looking at a vulnerable person being potentially exploited. Hence, if she was under 18, there could be different rules.
Or, maybe I should just keep my nose out and ignore this stuff, as it's clearly none of my business.
redana:A 16 yr old may well be 'legal', but we are talking about a 28 yr old male, so I feel that's the difference. If she is 16 she is still very much a child. If she has been in the care system she is likelly to be even more vulnerable............. If I was her Social Worker I would be very interested in the power dynamics of the relationship. At 18, she would probably still be vulnerable, but would at least be 'an adult' and not a child.
Yeah, that. You've got it in a nutshell, hence this thread. If she's post-18, she has a leaving care SW up until 25? Is that right?
For the record, I have no intention of contacting her SW. Not my place to do so unless I have something concrete to report, and even so, it's overstepping my boundaries significantly... Isn't it?
I agree with redana. I was was this girl's Social Worker and she were 17, I would want to know who her partner is and I would try to make sure as best as i can that he does not intend to exploit her regardless whether she is in care or independent living. If she is 18, she might be in supported lodgins with a previous foster carer, but as an adult and not as a child. There would be less right and duty on the LA as Corporate parent to investigate her contacts, but leaving care workers still have a duty to befriend and advise service users and no one that I know would turn a blind eye to abuse and exploitation.
The age difference is a difference in experience and i hope your friend would be mindful that in care or not, a child or young woman would be more vulnerable than a woman of his own age. As long as he does not plan to take advantage of her he does not need to worry about anything, i know of many good relationships where there is a 10 yrs plus age difference. However, if he tends to repeatedly form relationships with vulnerable. young girls this is something that might be picked up eventually and yes, that might look questionable. Again, I would question this is a new partner of one of my vulnerable service users appears to be a "serial father" who gets teenage girls pregnant and then moves on. I am not accusing your firend ov anything, obviosuly, but I am only speaking from experience and i am telling you what i would do if I were that girl's Social Worker.
AOGT:The guy is not in a position of trust, but there are historic concerns about this kinda stuff with him, i.e. friendly with young-ish vulnerable women.
There you are, so you are indeed suggesting that for some reason, he does tend to form relationships with vulnerable women. Not sure how young is young-ish but it seems to be enough to concern you, even more about this specific girl. You have identified a pattern here - any idea why he seems to be interested in vulnerable girls? Is there a reason why he is interested in a girl that is clearly quite a bit younger than he is? It might not necessarily be a sinister reason and maybe he would be willing to tell you about this. i guess the risk is that the next girl might be just that much younger but claiming to be older, enough to really land him in trouble.
RP: AOGT:The guy is not in a position of trust, but there are historic concerns about this kinda stuff with him, i.e. friendly with young-ish vulnerable women. There you are, so you are indeed suggesting that for some reason, he does tend to form relationships with vulnerable women. Not sure how young is young-ish but it seems to be enough to concern you, even more about this specific girl. You have identified a pattern here - any idea why he seems to be interested in vulnerable girls? Is there a reason why he is interested in a girl that is clearly quite a bit younger than he is? It might not necessarily be a sinister reason and maybe he would be willing to tell you about this. i guess the risk is that the next girl might be just that much younger but claiming to be older, enough to really land him in trouble.
From my knowledge of him, he's a very quiet, reserved guy with little confidence around females of our age (mid-to-late twenties). And when I said previously that he has a "history" with "young-ish" girls, I mean that in the past he has a 17 y/o gf when he was 23. I don't see anything sinister or dangerous, just doens't sit right with me, hence me asking re 17/18 y/o differences. I'd ask him about it but it'd be quite hard to do without him turning around and getting pissed off with me - he'll remind me that I'm not in work...
If this escalates or anything, I'll pop back on here and update. I very much doubt it will, and I saw them again yesterday and they were both happy and smiley etc, all disgustingly lovey-dovey. It's just... Well... I dunno. Goddamn risk-aware training.
The thing is, you are virtually saying that in 5 years his confidence has not grown and he has remained interested in the same age group. How would you feel it this situation gets repeated let's say in 5 years time? I appreciate nobody wants to be "social worked" by a friend, but again from experience, as he gets older there is a risk that if he sticks with this age group only increasingly more vulnerable girls would be interested in him and that's when he might land himself into real trouble.
Such an irritating thread. Cynical distrusting nosey parkers making assumptions and jumping to conclusions about a perfectly legal relationship. Symbolises everything thats wrong with Social work.
Fine if you do it when presented with evidence and facts and there is a clear strategy to apply. But this type of informal, half fact, assumptive dialogue smacks of being a 'do-gooder' to satisfy personal requirements.
It's nasty, unhelpful, dangerous and starts a rumour mill that ruins peoples lives.
a. Its not a 'fact' that she's 17. We don't know.
b. Its a 10 year age gap..which is hardly a newsflash
c. You are making assumptions about her vulnerability and maturity.
d. The age disparity is a twisted Western notion. In many parts of the world there is often a 10 yr age gap resulting in long happy successful marriages.
e. Research shows that a 15 yr age gap is best for conception
f. Its dangerous because you are advising on something you know absolutely nothing about. Have you considered that the original poster could in fact be the 28 yr old !!
I simply find it an unnecessary, hyped up thread.
I think we made quite clearly that distinction, the original post was enquiring whether it would matter if she were 17 or 18.
yes, only that one of the partners is potentially a vulnerable child and the whole thing has made the original poster unconfortable.
Under 18 year olds are classified as children under the law. I don't expect she was libing in care because everything was nice and well in her home evirnoment, hence she would have experienced a very difficult transition.
In many parts of the world the age of consent for sexual relationships is 13, in others girls marry at 7. I made it quite clear that 10 year gaps are not uncommon, but i think it is naive at best to ignore the power imbalance in these cases.
Please show me where you found it because it is the first time i ever hear of it. Why are we speaking of conception anyway??
f. Its dangerous because you are advising on something you know absolutely nothing about. Have you considered that the original poster could in fact be the 28 yr old !
I think what was posted is valid on the basis of the info probvided and it is irrelevant whether it is the 28 year old or not. If you have no interest in this thread, you do not have to contribute to it.
I give up .... just having read the first sentence
"AOGT believes that she is 17 and she is in foster care, so she is a child"
The application of 'evidence based' social work practice is astounding.
Rainbowarch - thank you for your contribution towards this thread. It's been really useful. No, really. How many times have I said that I'm reluctant to even consider this an issue? Quite a few. Next time, read the thread before passing your comments; I have no involvement with fostering and I'm not sure about the legislation, so I'm asking for advice. I don't want to put my nose in - I'm incredibly reluctant to do so - but I'm sounding out the situation so that I at least know where the land lies.
Nothing to contribute? Sod off then, and stop taking your job stress out on here.
Rainbowarch:Have you considered that the original poster could in fact be the 28 yr old !
You slanderous little sh*t.
I am with Rainbowarch on this one, and that is not often the case.
Long Gone: I am with Rainbowarch on this one, and that is not often the case.
Ok, grand - I've asked for info only, and never once sought to interfere. I hoped that I'd made that clear.
Rainbowarch:Research shows that a 15 yr age gap is best for conception
Unless you can provide evidence, that claim is just going down as idiocy.
Agree - 'Rainbowarch' made a stupid comment about the ideal age gap for conception and also a potentially libellous one re. the original poster perhaps being the 28-year-old..
The early response by 'Jellybean' was sound.
This is a relationship between 2 people who are both over the age of Consent - what are people getting so worked up about?
Agree I made a stupid comment about conception. I should have elaborated to put it into context but I was hurried. It wasn't a significant point anyway. My comment about the original poster potentially being the 28yr old in question in not libellous in the slightest. I was simply asking if this option had been considered. Its a serious point ... there are many individuals on these forms masquerading as professionals when they are not. AOGT - For the record, I am not implying that you are one of them. I just wanted to bring it to peoples attention that 'technically' you could be and that would put a whole different slant on this thread. Redana, I know all children in care are vulnerable. I was making the point about different levels and types of vulnerability. We all know many a child 'not in care' who is far more likely to be taken advantage of than many in care. Rupert, I completely agree. They are both over the age of consent so what IS everyone getting worked up about? Redana.. I am not sure how...by the Social worker knowing and caring... this actually helps the young person? The role of the foster carer is probably more important in this circumstance (from a young persons perspective) Long Gone.. Thanks.
We would, but unfortunately it appears we have to pick you and AOGT from nursery...
I'm definitely bowing out of this one. Sad that so called 'professionals' have resorted to 'Sod off', ‘little sh*t' . 'Grow up' and 'Get a room'. It really does nothing to support the validity of the points you make.
I'm so tempted to react but will not stoop to that level.
Adios on this thread.
really interesting thread
I agree with redana and rp that its about vulnerability and that as a corporate parent the daughter test is relevant - I actually have a firend who was in a similart position - her 17 year old daughter started seeing a 31 year old and naturally she was horrified (and as a man of similar age I would persopnally question the motives of someone seeking such a relationship - what on earth do they have in common?). Its not lclear cut tho - my friend agonised for months on what to do and it became clear the reality was that there was little she could do - over the age of consent and any restriction would have pushed the daughter into the mans arms even more - even more relevant if the OP's friend is vulnerable as it would just make the friend far less likely to admit when/if things turned exploitative - making her even more vulnerable and possibly playing into the boyfriends hands if he has nefarious intentions... For the record everything worked out fine and the daughter out grew the relationship by 18 - tho she was anything other than vulnerable as she was exceptionally pretty and wielded all the power in the relationship as far as we could work out (he spent an absolute fortune on her and followed her around like a lost puppy). One thing where the corporate parenting fails is that my friend actually allowed the 2 live with her - and so was able to keep a close watch.
Out of interest what powers would a social worker have to intervene? bearing in mind shes over the age of consent? other than advice (and when is that ever successful for a teenager and relationships?)
While i agree with everything youve said redana I have to say that saying a pregnancy at the age of 17 is disastrous is a massive value judgement and surely denigrates all such people - huge numbers of girls that age raising children successfully as we speak - its just how the world is nowadays.
Also - how many girls of that age go for older men? loads of my friends did at that age - its glamorous and affords access to things unreachable otherwise - and it basically lasts until they realise its actually a little bit sad on the behalf of their other halves. I remember a gitrl at Uni who was 18 and her boyfirend aged 34 came to visit - the fact that we were all in a state of shock rather than awe hastened the end