Was Harriet Harman right to wear a stab vest for her walk around Peckham with 3 police officers? She says it was just like wearing a hard hat on a building site. I'm not sure - surely it gives out the wrong signal about how safe our streets are? Also, will social workers ever be issued with them?

I've been to Peckham - I think she was very wise to wear a vest

Harman's modelling of a stab vest in Peckham follows on from home secretary Jacqui Smith's comment that she feels unsafe in Hackney at night. Perhaps Smith could borrow Harman's stab vest when she is down with the kids in east London. I wonder which other cabinet ministers are living in fear of their lives when they walk the streets where the feral working classes roam.

Dont now about stab vests but Harriet has been referred to as Harriet Hormone for her attempts to [positively discriminate recently.

I think it's all a fuss about nothing. She wore a stab vest. Big deal. It's not like she insisted on doing her tour in an armoured vehicle.

She did very well at Prime Minister's questions yesterday. William Hague suggested she goes to cabinet meetings dressed as a clown. She replied that she wouldn't be accepting sartorial advice from a man wearing a baseball cap. She brought the House down she did!

This came up on Question Time last night... with predictable results. Was surprised Clare Short laid into her so much, or maybe not... could be a few issues there from the past. Douglas Alexander said HH was offered the vest and put it on without thinking about it...HH had had a chat with him yesterday morning about it he said. But hang on... if HH hadn't worn a flak vest and toured with police wearing them that would mean that she would have been unprotected if attacked. The person would not have known HH was not a policewoman and so the police would have been OK but the politician possibly hurt. So logically speaking she was quite right to wear the vest. Otherwise you'd have to argue that the police shouldn't wear the vests either. I'm kind of disappointed nobody on the QT panel or in the audience defended HH on this. Seems obvious.

Harriet Harman has a short memory , She needs a stab vest she would incite a riot with saying one thing and not following through . She wrote to my MP and said in the New Year they would bring into discussion in Parliament Opening the closed Family Courts. She said this was after receiving hundreds of letters about trials etc. She also said I raised important questions about the inside dealings. Since becoming Deputy Leader , I am wondering if she has been gagged aswell ? A case of shut up if you want to come up froont of house !

If we get in question time we will want to know why she has turned coat not adonned a stab vest . I refer to the closed courts and accounatbilty of so called Expert Witness's

Are social workers also provided with stab-proof vests in Peckham?

What a pathetic posting 'margaretthatcherschild' - I find it to be offensive, totally unprofessional and almost (if not actually) indicating that social workers can be the authors of their own misfortune. Your posting would bring little comfort to the family of Philip Ellison.

I really think that you ought to think a little more before submitting such unwise comments.

Reality is that in working with the mentallty ill there are potentially additional risks to workers arising from the irrational and impusive actions sometimes displayed and that social workers (and others) will always be attacked and even killed.

Risk Assessments, accompanied visits, even wearing protective clothing can all help but none are any guarantee of safety. It is ill-advised to say what you COULD have done - those of us with a depth of experience know exactly what can happen but that does not stop us working with mentally ill clients (or, non-mentally ill ones who may feel that they / their children are at risk).

Rupert, Once again the paper work and experience of dealing with Harriet Harman would support my last post. She has done exactly the opposite of what she said she would do raise this in discussion in Parliament the question of opening the courts. She laed people to believe she was open to discussion . Since then there has been nothing to suggest the opening of the courts in her new post as Deputy Leader. This paper workor letter was sent to my MPhe read this sent his on to me. HH quoted in the New Year 2006 she would be raising questions due to the hundreds of letters sent from people regarding their experience of closed court . HH done nothing about this except get everyones back up and insult the labour party future voters she we note taken to wearing a stab vest!. I suggest that you contact your union to address appropriate help for dealing with serious matters or situations people with mental health and children at risk . IF you are not on a bonus or on £21 00 - £35 00 per hour as a Qualified SW . I would have thought that £300 was worth the money as in the proces you have not got the reassurance of back up from your employers. I note the lack of job satisfaction and am saddened to see no postives from working in SS. As I see it the problem is with support and a lack of communication with your managers.With the recent death of any colleague or discontent with how you are appreciated as a valued employee you should make waves through lobbying to change laws and ask MP's to take up your case if your employers are not bothered or could not careless. Moving on now to relate to working with violent people , and I do have lots of experience of dealing with people and have been appropriately trained to look after myself and my staff and the contents of a days takings in a busy high street bar. I worked in retail since my late teens primarily in a background in the roughest public houses and clubs. I have seen mangers shake with fear and ring up regional mangers crying they can not deal with the abuse or threats .I had to deal with aggressive alcoholics on a daily basis. I was responsible for a pub the people in it . The decision not selling alcohol to someone who had enoughto drink and switching on me in a second . Also to deal with someone having a fit because of drink. I never had a vest or a weapon just the guts to do my job . If I could not do it I knew were the door was. I had a man dying of cancer and come from Scotland on a coach to say sorry to his children for abusing them . I got on the phone and I got hold of his daughter she expalined she did not want to know. We arranged a guest house for him and that was as much as we could do for him. The man who died  he was vulnerable and did not have the ALL the facts about the client. This is what we are saying the paperwork is a mess and is also inaccurate . Again my sympathy for your colleague , I think a course in self defence is advisable even my children can defend themselves . Do the SS give you any training or is it sked for in a CV ? or offered at a reduced price to SW's The posts are moderted on here and I save them PDF the whole thread and if not allowed on here they will be posted else were freedom of speech is allowed and not edited out of context. Rupert M Just for your attention incase you do not wish to continue with this thread or to continue commenting . Kind Regards to you and the community and I hope you will consider my suggestions pay for a vest or self defence lessons. You know it makes sense !

Rupert , I do like to have two sides to a story a nd not 1. Would you like to discuss the problems with the BBC ?I am dealing with the BBC today discussing the abuse and bullying tactics from SW's dealing with families in a vulnerable situation ; they are in a private CC setting and then the SW are writing up reports for courts. the BBC have asked me for more information, I like to show the broader view of the problems on the side of the service user and the provider. Only if we work together can we improve matters.