As simple as the subject suggests. If the power was in your hands... what would you do to change/alter the degree programme and make it better [and the reasons why].
Just interested
Cheers
Andy
Here's my starters for 10
I would ensure that the lecturers all have relevant SW experience and have not been out of practice since Noah built his arc
jelly_tot04: Here's my starters for 10 I would ensure that the lecturers all have relevant SW experience and have not been out of practice since Noah built his arc
LMAO that is a really good point!!!
I would also split the degree into either C&F or adults whats the point in doing both as most people want either adults or c&f and dont change between the 2. This would give students the opportunity to have 2 C&F or adutl placements instead of being made to do one of each
From what I remember and from talking to SW students there is way too much academic work expected in the 3rd year, coupled with the long placement leads to extreme stress
I also hated having to do the recorded 'mock' interviews (the uni i went only ever used adults with learning disabilites) it didn't prepare me for interviewing children
There's loads of things that could be changed to make it better, I'll have to have a bit of a think
Hatgirl:It really depends on what team you have your placements in and how protected you are on them. On paper I had an awful placement, wont go into details but basically I was working as a qualified social worker, in a statutory team, with virtually no support (staff shortages left only a newly qualified social worker as 'social work' in a multi dis team) but had a fantastic (but hands-off) practice teacher. The result: I entered practice with my eyes well and truly open, and feel more able to deal with difficult situations than the majority of my university cohort of similar age and experience. There have been calls on this forum for students to be more protected from the harsh realities of a social work caseload, that is all well and good but in many cases it can leave NQSWs very unprepared. Rather than protecting them I feel they need to be given the difficult cases but with a great deal of support in how to manage them, whilst they are still in a protected state of learning. I think more self awareness work is also needed as part of the degree, I hate role play with a passion, but what would you do in this scenario type exercised help focus the mind on gaps in knowledge and practice learning areas. I was lucky, I did my social work MA at a University that is known to have a very good social work department, and generally turns out a high caliber of students. I did placements with students from another nearby university, and was not impressed by the way that their course was taught.
I think this is the very reason why I consider myself lucky to have had a couple of years frontline experience during college and my first year of uni. It really does make all the difference. Role play wouldn't be my cup of tea, but I get what you mean. Sort of going through case studies and exploring our interpretation of the situation and deciding on what action to take... then challenging eachother on it. I have to say that, now at the end of my second year, I feel my uni certainly do their best, and I too have come across other students from other uni's and the taught element to their programme makes me cringe. It is scary the difference in quality of social work programmes. Admitedly there will be some variation, but some do seem completely different. I cant speak for the MA, but that certainly seems to be the case with the undergraduate degree. I like to think I cope quite well with some of the academic work, but I also feel for those who struggle and often fail who you can just see will make fantastic workers out in practice.
jelly_tot04: I would also split the degree into either C&F or adults whats the point in doing both as most people want either adults or c&f and dont change between the 2. This would give students the opportunity to have 2 C&F or adutl placements instead of being made to do one of each From what I remember and from talking to SW students there is way too much academic work expected in the 3rd year, coupled with the long placement leads to extreme stress I also hated having to do the recorded 'mock' interviews (the uni i went only ever used adults with learning disabilites) it didn't prepare me for interviewing children There's loads of things that could be changed to make it better, I'll have to have a bit of a think
I'm sure I read somewhere that someone important was thinking about that change. Is that not how it works with the PQ awards? Do either one in adult or c+f?
Oh and the stress levels! This year (second year) all except one of my essays were due whilst i was out on pacement (plus a law exam and a horrible portfolio)... it's definitely demanding.
Hear from you soon... keep thinking :)
A
I'm on the MA and have only done my first year. There are lots of specific comments I could make about my uni, but they probably aren't much use to you and I believe they're changing a lot of things they do anyway.
I don't know how it would fit with quality assurance etc, but the "you must attend 80% of lectures, the GSCC says so" thing gets on my nerves a bit - lectures are really aimed at people with one type of learning style, I am not the world's best auditory learner, and forcing me to spend my time covering a small amount of work in a lecture-room when I could cover 3x as much in the same time by myself bothers me a bit.
I'd make the course a lot more practical. Unlike the other poster who said they'd split into c+f and adults, I can see the benefits of knowing about the other side, and don't feel the theoretical stuff we've had means that it makes sense to me fully. I'd far rather have used more case studies in class to build it into more practical as well as theoretical stuff.
The posters who've said that lecturers with recent experience are better are so right, but I'd go one further, the policy and guidance and law is moving so fast that I really feel it would be better if we were taught by people who were still working in the field for the other part of the week. The people who have got recent experience are able to make things come to life more with anecdotes etc, but often they're out of date when there's been a recent legislation change.
ariom:the GSCC says so" thing gets on my nerves a bit - lectures are really aimed at people with one type of learning style, I am not the world's best auditory learner, and forcing me to spend my time covering a small amount of work in a lecture-room when I could cover 3x as much in the same time by myself bothers me a bit.
definitely, I learnt so much more self study than I learnt in lectures (although that may be because due to my part time job I spent most of them nose down asleep on the table much to the amusement of the other students, but I attended in body and that was what mattered!)
ariom:I'd make the course a lot more practical. Unlike the other poster who said they'd split into c+f and adults, I can see the benefits of knowing about the other side, and don't feel the theoretical stuff we've had means that it makes sense to me fully. I'd far rather have used more case studies in class to build it into more practical as well as theoretical stuff.
I have forgotten 99% of what I learnt in C&F and what I learnt is now probably out of date. I had no interest whatsoever in it then, and ever so slightly more so now but only because people hear 'social worker' and ask me questions I should really know the answer to. It is important to have a basic grounding in both at that stage in your social work career, specialising is what PQs are for.
ariom: The posters who've said that lecturers with recent experience are better are so right, but I'd go one further, the policy and guidance and law is moving so fast that I really feel it would be better if we were taught by people who were still working in the field for the other part of the week. The people who have got recent experience are able to make things come to life more with anecdotes etc, but often they're out of date when there's been a recent legislation change.
In my LA they produced guidance on personalisation which went out of date a month after it had been distributed. Again, I dont know about C&F but adult social work is changing, rapidly! If we in practice are struggling to keep up with it then I cant see how lecturers have a chance. I really enjoyed the sessions held by my university with 'real' social workers and think I learnt more from that 1- 2 hrs each time than i did in any other context. I certainly would be happy to speak to social work students about my area practice, as would many of my colleagues (anything for a morning off!) but no-one ever asks!
Hatgirl: ariom:the GSCC says so" thing gets on my nerves a bit - lectures are really aimed at people with one type of learning style, I am not the world's best auditory learner, and forcing me to spend my time covering a small amount of work in a lecture-room when I could cover 3x as much in the same time by myself bothers me a bit. definitely, I learnt so much more self study than I learnt in lectures (although that may be because due to my part time job I spent most of them nose down asleep on the table much to the amusement of the other students, but I attended in body and that was what mattered!) ariom:I'd make the course a lot more practical. Unlike the other poster who said they'd split into c+f and adults, I can see the benefits of knowing about the other side, and don't feel the theoretical stuff we've had means that it makes sense to me fully. I'd far rather have used more case studies in class to build it into more practical as well as theoretical stuff. I have forgotten 99% of what I learnt in C&F and what I learnt is now probably out of date. I had no interest whatsoever in it then, and ever so slightly more so now but only because people hear 'social worker' and ask me questions I should really know the answer to. It is important to have a basic grounding in both at that stage in your social work career, specialising is what PQs are for. ariom: The posters who've said that lecturers with recent experience are better are so right, but I'd go one further, the policy and guidance and law is moving so fast that I really feel it would be better if we were taught by people who were still working in the field for the other part of the week. The people who have got recent experience are able to make things come to life more with anecdotes etc, but often they're out of date when there's been a recent legislation change. In my LA they produced guidance on personalisation which went out of date a month after it had been distributed. Again, I dont know about C&F but adult social work is changing, rapidly! If we in practice are struggling to keep up with it then I cant see how lecturers have a chance. I really enjoyed the sessions held by my university with 'real' social workers and think I learnt more from that 1- 2 hrs each time than i did in any other context. I certainly would be happy to speak to social work students about my area practice, as would many of my colleagues (anything for a morning off!) but no-one ever asks!
Hey, if your willing to speak with students then please get in touch with a local uni. Honestly, I think it is so important that us students hear from social workers (at the end of the day we aspire to be like you) and sadly universities often fail to approach people. I'm sure they would be happy to let you deliver something. If your willing to talk, and they haven't approached any of you, then us students are missing out of learning from your experience and expertise. :)
p.s. sorry about quoting that whole entire piece... it's taking me a while to learn how to use all the different functions on here
Placements definitely need looking at. The way in which they are assessed is crazy and inadequate. I really think that the placement should be assessed far more through direct observation of your practice (including of some of your paperwork, reports, professional conduct, working relationships etc), accompanied by verbal discussions about your work. The assignments are pointless- they prove very little and just add far more stress (and far less sleep!) to the time on placement. Why on earth do they insist on using academic methods to assess practice learning?
The other thing is that placements should be a standalone affair, with no other academic deadlines at the same time, which distract you, stress you out, and make you less able to concentrate on learning all you can from the placement.
I also believe that lecturers should have to work part time in frontline practice, as well as in academia. The lectures in my course that I learned most from and who inspired me most were those that are still in practice now or had only just left- they were giving up to date information and their lectures were the most relevant and informative of all.
I don't really have anything different to add other than that which has already been stated. Lecturers are generally (not all by any means) very far removed from current practice. I think it is essential that those who teach social work practise social work in some capacity.
I absolutely think that dividing the degree into children and families and adult/mental health would be a grave error. In my mind, there should be more generic work rather than less. It has been a mistake in my mind that we have become so compartmentalised as the value base is the same and although the day to day work and bureaucracy might be different, a world where there is no generic training would be an error as we need to know how different pieces of the life experience fit together.
Children are not children in isolation nor are adults, adults in isolation but the progression through different life stages affect each later life stage in different ways.
Specialisation can come later.
queenb: Placements definitely need looking at. The way in which they are assessed is crazy and inadequate. I really think that the placement should be assessed far more through direct observation of your practice (including of some of your paperwork, reports, professional conduct, working relationships etc), accompanied by verbal discussions about your work. The assignments are pointless- they prove very little and just add far more stress (and far less sleep!) to the time on placement. Why on earth do they insist on using academic methods to assess practice learning? The other thing is that placements should be a standalone affair, with no other academic deadlines at the same time, which distract you, stress you out, and make you less able to concentrate on learning all you can from the placement.
With actual direct observations, I do have some problems with increasing the number. On my placement at the moment I feel that there would be some ethical issues in an offsite practice educator observing relating to consent etc, but my work-based-supervisor is from a different discipline (teaching) and I've found her feedback on my direct observations very much from an education perspective and I've felt less useful. With regards to looking at paperwork etc, the assessment process in my opinion includes all the supervisions etc along the way - my PE has spoken to people who I have working relationships with, and has copies of paperwork and reports etc - I think the PE's recommendation of Pass/Fail has more sway than the other porfolio items. I did once discuss it in supervision and compared it to the learning mentor portfolio I'd completed which contained a lot more direct evidence - copies of session plans, worksheets completed etc, and the conclusion we came to was that the practice educator is doing the majority of the assessing and has had copies of this direct evidence/seen it/discussed it, which is why the portfolio can have more indirect evidence. I think that at your place you have the same assignments as me. I have found them and the timings useful to force through the type of work I need to do in a new placement that wasn't sure of my role. I think it's good to have to explicitly show linking theory to practice. Doing the assignments has helped me be aware of the criticisms of methods I was using so I could create stronger and more robust explanations of what I've done. I think it would be more useful to have more reflective practice essays maybe rather than case studies -I think it should be in both the first and second years.
The bringing other academic deadlines at the same time as placement on my course is purely so we can have feedback from other essays before we write other ones - on such a narrow timescale as the MA to develop the skills of academic writing etc this is something I appreciate, but also something I wish they'd made explicit to us so I could have got drafts ready before the placement started. Certainly next year, the deadlines in the placement will be met with just a tidying and alteration of draft rather than full initial write-up from my part. That of course doesn't explain things like Andy_pandy's course asking him to do a law exam while on placement which obviously would require later timescale work.
I personally believe students are in quite a vulnerable position what with not being employed (most of the time) so placements do not need to follow specific procedures if they choose not to (particularly if they want to terminate placements etc) and also the pressures are quite substantial. I recently read in PSW that an MP said the social work degree was hard to fail. I dont see this as the case. I achieve good grades but work bloody hard, so yes I stress myself out with it all, but it is definitely demanding. I think the mixture of vulnerability on placements and mahoosive pressures from uni isn't a great mix. Although saying that, it is preparing us for a demanding workforce.
Hey all..
I think that there needs to be consistently different approaches to the way students are taught imagine how boring our development would be if everyone was taught the same subjects. However, one of the difficulties of this eclectic approach is perhaps down to the agenda of the L.A.'s and the Uni's.
The problem with student placements is that there is a massive power imbalance as there is within the education establishment themselves between students and lecturers. I have struggled to come to terms with this over my degree especialliy when we consider that as students we pay a lot of money, over three years (Poss around £15k +) not taking into account money spent on travel etc and in lost wages....and what for........to pottentially be failed by P.T's... In my opinion Students should be able to access independent adjudicators / advocates (Perhaps like a NYAS for social work students) so when there are problems or PT's wield the axe, they have to explain there failing of a student and be accountable to an approved body and if they have failed in their role then there should be consequences...
Re the changes to the degree...perhaps we could have specific regional social work training collectives where studetns from each region I.e Yorkshire or North Wales area come together to learn with training days for theory, methods, Childrens, Adults and law etc. Sessions migh take place over five days a week in the first year, three days in the second year and in the third year one day per week in the accademic environment/venue. The days when not in lectures, students would be in a work setting which matches the current accedemic agenda, perhaps spending three or four months rotation between departmens. This would provide gradual exposure to the work environment, provide students an income and help reduce the pressure on overloaded practitioners. Also in this environment, P.T's might have to be suitably qualified with a teaching/training menotiring qual and furthermore I would perhaps scrap Uni lecturers and use appropriately qualified staff / P.T's so there is no seperation between practice and education. The dual role P.T. / Tutor work force would also be nested in the workforce teams with a minimal caseload to provide...
i do acknowledge that not all practice teachers are going to be 100% but there seems to be an (unfair?) perception of practice teachers as not being accountable, not being trained, having all the power etc. yes, there is a power imbalance - as with all aspects of social work even as a frontline worker working with service users, or as workers going back to managers to advocate for resources etc. it is what's done to acknowledge that power imbalance and overcome it.
i realise i'm speaking from the other side of the fence here, as a practice teacher and full time s/w with a caseload, plus i hope i'm not coming across as defensive. personally the idea of the training collective doesn't sound realistic, certainly not for statutory work and especially not in the financial environment we are in at the minute. also the idea of scrapping uni lecturers is quite worrying: we need to think long and hard before leaving the training of theory, legislation, ethics/values to organisations more involved in the provision of the social work service than a more-neutral uni.
as a practice teacher i do not see my role as thinking about how much money the student has paid to get on their degree. that's not to say i'm unsympathetic as i often thought the same on my course but unfortunately that's the choice you make and not just for social work training. at least there are bursaries etc. the priority has got to be about whether the student is in a position to progess or be a qualified worker at the end of placement. if i started thinking about how the student's sacrificed so much to get to this point but their practice is unsafe, should i pass them anyway, i'd feel i was practicing inappropriately as a practice teacher. there are procedures (believe it or not ;) ) that p.t's should follow that is given by the uni's, and also in my organisation inhouse p.t/student policies
practice teacher's are accountable (as in their social work practice) and do have to quite extenstively justify their decisions and actions (at least in my own experience), and i can only speak for myself but the role is taken seriously: failing a student gave me sleepless nights, tonnes of time spent with the student to try to turn things round before the final decision was made, and was not something that was taken lightly. certainly the uni who oversee the placements i have been a p.t. for have very rigorous procedures and have panels made up of uni members who oversee (and challenge!) p.t. decisions/actions.
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As a (now) qualified sw I understand the dillemmas that students go through with uni and placement demands. I was very lucky when I was given my 2nd and 3rd year pt's, as they were fair and honest but thourough, in their assessments. In actual fact I learnt more from them than I did from some of my tutors.
My last pt was from a child protection background (20yrs) and took no messing from anyone. She assessed situations as a second nature, giving good and sound advice to me when I neeeded it (and she expected me to take note of it and act upon it). I know that she would definatley have failed my portfolio and my practice, if I had not been upto her standards. Both my pt's expected me to complete work on time (as well as the work from uni and looking after my families needs). It was not an easy 2nd and 3rd year but I kept reminding myself why I was doing the degree anbd who chose to do it (me).
The experiance of the social work degree has given me stamina and the ability to reconise my own strenghts, the need to be accountable and the need to always be proactive in all aspects of social work. If it had not been for my pt's I may never had the courage to challange a bad placement (which had to go to tribunal) and achive the best I could.
Unfortunately some placements/pt's are not always what a student expects, therefore if any student feels that they are not attaining the level of teaching/oppertunities they are entitled to they should speak out.
I feel privileged to have had such good pt's when I was learning, although I had some friends who weren't so lucky.