Hi,
I was wondering if there is anyone out there who is qualified and has been a service user or is a service user who also works in the statutory sector.
I am not myself, but I know someone with years of experience as both a service user and "professional." The power struggles he has described to me are just amazing -- he has never held a managerial role despite trying, and always believes this is down to his "service user" history. I dont know how common that experience is. On the other hand he is amazing with the service users he helps --- he always says it is not the clients that are the problem, it is his colleagues questioning his judgement! has that been your experience? he is always very critical of service user involvement initiatives - having been in the recieiving end he can spot a tokenistic gesture from a million miles....
Yes, thats it!
I have never found service users to be a problem, I manage to engage well with all kinds of people. Yes I agree totally, I can spot a tokenistic jesture straight away and makes me feel quite sick. I don't know if its because of my experience but I spot things other workers seem to miss. Things that they feel are not important but later prove to be of some significance. I know that in a few settings people have questioned why I have been told things by service users while others have not.
I do wonder though if I was lucky to get a job eventually in the statutory sector if I would be allowed to work up the ladder? Still thats jumping the gun just a little.
Thank you for your reply Muriel
I like to see people as people first,
Thanks sweetgrass - I personally think ex-service users have more to offer that professionals with no real experience to compare with their clients. I hope that any potential manager would realise that and capitalise on the real "experts" - people like you
I agree with muriel here. no one can truly empathise unless they have had personal experience and it just shows how far we have to go as a society for this to become accepted. I recently worked for a large mental health charity who appear not to like it if their staff suffer from mental health issues (?) The same applies in other areas eg learning disability......who are the experts ? The people who live everyday with the discrimination , fear and frustration or the girl just out of uni with the qualifications as long as your arm?
Well, when I do get there (I will make it happen) I am having one huge long party to celebrate.
Thank you Muriel and Anne,
Do you think its a bit of a taboo subject being a service user and being a qualified worker. Would people mention to their employers they are experiencing mental health problems or would they cover it up?
There must be qualified people out there who are working and have had or are experiencing mental health problems. Or do social workers burn out and then have to quit and thats it. Where are you all and what is your experience?
I don't know if it's any help, but I wrote a feature a couple of years ago about a man who had been a service user and was now working for his local nhs trust
CareSpace support
Hi Simeon,
I thought it was a very interesting article, I liked the fact that St Georges Mental Health NHS Trust is pro-active in helping people to also find clinical positions. It is just what I would like, some help with applications to know what to disclose, some advice and most importantly a little support once in post.
It mentions that it makes good buisiness sense to employ people with mental health problems as we have insight into what its like to have mental health problems.
Its interesting that Adrian Smith had only one period of ten days when he was unable to work. I had 3 days off from February to September but that put me on a stage one process for the boot.
We hear so much about service users and 'positive risk taking' to help them move forward. I think a programme like the one mentioned is fantastic, I am wondering if daily travel from where I live to London is feasable.
Like Adrian Smith I think every Trust should be MADE to provide such schemes. My experience with a Trust when things went wrong for me even though they were aware of my mental health when they employed me was to 'redeploy me'. Actually that is a way getting rid of you. Posts classed as suitable are not available and when you go for one yes you get the first supposedly non competitive interview but the managers make a slip by mentioning "that it would still be nice to see a few more people just to see" while you are arranging to go and meet them for the 'non competitive informal' interview.
I really hate it when you read job adds which welcome people with disabilities or having experienced mental ill health. Its a load of rubbish, I know of someone who was offered a job and then they tried to withdraw it once they found out about her mental health. If people with disabilities are valued how is it a job for a receptionist/clerk for someone with a learning disability is on a lower band compared to all other advertised reception/clerk jobs.
Adrian Smith says that he feels he can make a difference, that he is useful and not bottom of the pile. I feel like I am bottom of the pile and quite frankly I don't like it and don't want to stay there.
I agree with Wallcraft (2002) cited in Tew (2005.p.2009) that 'people seeking work wanted it because of financial security, social status,acceptance, structure and meaning in life or because work is intrinsically satisfying'.
Since having my breakdown last September I have not worked and believe me I want to work. My self esteem went down the pan and has stayed there. I feel I have no control over my future. I WANT a programme like the one above.
Oh I have done lots of voluntary work and enjoyed it but want something paid like anyone else would want.
In reply to your Post, Yes I have experience of recieving and offering services from statutory agencies.
I am unclear as to whether your enquiry is of a particular area of service provision or in a wider sense, could you clarify a little?
My experiences may not be what you are looking for.
Hi Spooky,
I suppose I had been thinking about more about mental health as its the area that has affected myself.
I work in a pyschiatric unit for adults of working age and am just about to start training to be a social worker. When I was younger I used to self-harm and still have a lot of scarring on my arms in particular. I did not mention this at my job interview for fear of being seen as unable to cope with work which can involve working with people who self-harm, and the vast majority of my colleagues have no idea about my history as I always wear long sleeves. However a few months ago the subject came up when I was speaking to my then manager, I told him how uncomfortable I had been over the summer wearing long sleeves at work and asked what he advised with regards to my wearing short sleeved tops and was advised not too as I might appear unproffessional (his words) He also advised me that although I could wear short-sleeves if I wanted too it could possibly effect the way that colleagues and employers in the future view me and hinder my future job prospects.. As time has gone on I feel unable to tell my colleagues about my scarring and feel I have to cover it up because of some of the extremely prejudicial attitudes that some of them hold - an example of which is a colleague when referring to a patient who had self-harmed saying all people who self-harm should have their hands chopped off and this guy wasn't joking. Maybe then I should have just rolled up my sleeves and confronted him but I felt that it would cause me so many problems in the workplace and I did not want my career to be jepordised because of this issue. I've been on several interviews to gain a place at university and I have not mentioned this issue to any of the interviewers as I fear this part of my past could hinder my application. However I also suffered from post-natal depression in the past and have found my current employers and colleagues to have been extremely supportive about this issue (as I had to take time off - otherwise I probably wouldnt have mentioned it to any of them for the same fears as above). It seems that there are some 'acceptable' types of mental health problems and some 'unacceptable' for employees to have at least in my workplace. I do find that in my workplace there seems to be a 'them' and 'us' divide between staff and service users and it seems to me that peple find it hard to deal with the idea that a colleague could suffer from mental health problems,perhaps beacuse this crosses the 'divide'?
New title about to be published under criminal justice publishers - short description of it on the waterside press website under forthcoming titles. "So you think you know me" by Allan Weaver. This is very recommended about a client in crimininal justice system who is now senior social worker
I was what is now quaintly termed "Looked After" as a Child and have been a practicing Social Worker for a number of years.
On the whole I keep this to myself, although over time, general conversation with colleagues has lead to situations whereby I either opt out of a conversation or 'fess up. Interestingly, most people assume I must have been "a bit of a bugger" as a child.
I have been advised to keep my own history private, which for myself is not a major difficulty as I have a distrust of individuals who want to offer their own troubled histories chapter and verse. That said, it is simply not feasible to avoid direct questions such as "you never mention your parents...."
I feel able to challenge some negative stereotypes about Care Leavers and future parenting in some situations, however there are many statements left unchallenged. It is not my sole responsibility to change the world, just a couple of attitudes now and again with trusted colleagues.
The point is not lost on myself that I do not have a physical indicator of that which I choose to conceal, so I can maintain my own level of privacy, essential to my own wellbeing.
I have had excellent colleagues over the years, each with their own unique history that they in turn have tentatively shared with myself, many of us are in this profession due to the strenghths we have derived from our experiences of adversity.
Whilst the "Care" element is an important part of my identity, it is not my whole identity, this is what Ifeel matters most. People know me for who I am, not for what I may or may not have experienced.
Hope this helps.
Hi Ghost, Gorman and Emma
Welcome to CareSpace and thanks for your contributions. I don't understand why it's made so difficult for former service users to work in social care - would I be right in thinking that there seems to an attitude problem among some staff or is it more a system problem?
I think I could safely say my health conditions have paved the way for bullying and harassment – not by colleagues, or service users, but by blinkered management, for whom the only meaning of life lies in performance indicators. It is my belief that such managers rely on the vulnerability of staff like myself, to ensure we feel isolated and do not speak up for ourselves, even though, by the very nature of our work, we know our rights.
Hi Emma, Thanks for your response.
Until my breakdown I worked on a forensic psychiatrc unit and yes some staff do have very prejudicial views. When I had my breakdown ( I tried to commit suicide) I went into hospita,l my manager came to see me. She said there are two types of people with mental health problems who can work within the mental health system and believed I was one that could not. It was the second time I had spoken to her and she knew nothing about me or what had gone on in my life to get to that position of feeling there was no way out! So there does seem to be some unnaceptable mental health problems according to one manager!
The divide is certainly there between service user and staff and there is a power thing that goes on as well.
Hi Gorman, That sounds interesting, I will look out for it.
Hello Simeon and Psyche, I think the problem lies with both the staff and the system. I think the attitude of some managers filters down and some lower staff who take on a negative attitude.
I am very sure from my experience and deduction work that managers influence HR who then recruit only people deemed suitable. I believe they are influenced on how to deal with someone who is employed but then experiences a mental health problem. I say this because the consultant for my employer is happy for me to go back to work with service users. However his advice is a guide so he said and that the managers and HR have the last say. I class myself as unemployed as the process for redeployment is rubbish and non supportive. I can already see the outcome
I am glad people are speaking up about how they feel and their experiences. It is not enough for organisations to say they specialise in mental health and yet do not support their own employees. It is not right that people feel they have to hide their past and cover themselves up. People need to be valued, treated with dignity and respect. People are working within 'businesses' but businesses need people, all kinds of people.
My experiences is that these organisations state their values and have policies, but are they worth the paper they are written on? The question is how can we change things for the better?
I don't think that because someone has firsthand experience of a condition, problem or situation that automatically makes them better at doing a job in that area. It's well-known that a lot of social workers do the job as some sort of therapy for their own troubled pasts and that's no good for them or the people they are trying to help. Somebody who has had a relatively happy, untroubled upbringing may make a brilliant social worker, dare I say better than someone who was once in care themselves and may bring a lot of unresolved problems to the job. But I agree that there are many current or ex service users who are fantastic at what they do and I can well believe they are passed over for promotions or discriminated against. In the end it's not a case of someone being better at a job or an "expert" because they have gone through something.
It is far too easy to look at this issue as former 'service users' v non 'service-users.'
We are all influenced to greater or lesser degrees by the sum of our previous experiences, what is important is how we can draw positively on those experiences (especially the more negative ones) in order to help others in ways which are objective and useful to the person we are seeking to assist.
You don't have to have been abused in order to help those who have BUT it is not possible to know exactly what is is like but there is a mass of research to inform us of the likely effects and how help can best be provided.
I think that former 'sufferers' have a tremendous amount to offer providing that they have good insights into their own pasts and can avoid personalising the advice / interactions they deal with. There is nothing to suggest that they do not treat others completely objectively but they nay have additional understanding and patience, equally they may experience a degree of frustration that having overcome whatever it was others find it more difficult.
I guess the point I am trying to make is that one can not, and should not, generalise in respect of former 'service users' any more than in respect of any other groups within society.
Hi Simeon, regarding your article above,
I want to share this with everyone as when I read it it took my breath away! I sent an e-mail to the Trust and this is the response I got. It is such a positive response compared to what I am used to. I would be happy to travel from the South daily and spend my wages on train tickets just to have this opportunity to get back into work and realise my dream. I have had two responses from agencies which is great too and have followed up, but this is the only one from a Trust. Its the first bit of any real hope I have had since coming out of hospital. In the mean time my own employer has advised me that I am going onto the last stage of proceedings before they give you their months notice under a sickness policy. Their policy put me back in terms of recovery and made me continue to be depressed, their policy gave me no hope at all for any kind of future. The Trust below deserves an award just for instilling HOPE within people.
sweetgrass, That is fantastic ! Exactly what ALL trusts should be doing ! Its put a smile on my face today . Word of advice.......keep Bon Jovi out of the interview
Great news, Sweetgrass and thanks for sharing the letter with us.
Very funny, Anne!
Hi Anne,
What! not even a little tiny bit of Bon Jovi? Oh well, I will have to swot up on models and theories instead and impress them that way! Now where do I start mmmm...crisis intervention....mmm......Bon Jovi....person centred......Bon Jovi.....Bon Jovi....
Hope your meeting went ok
hi
i read with interest and admoration your disclosure r.e. self harming. i feel you are very brave and should have comfronted your collegues about their nieve comments. i'm wondering which uni u will be attending?
Hi Chez,
Thanks for your comment, I'm going to Bristol university to do the Msc, and hoping very much that I can leave my current job quite soon!
good luck xxx
Good luck Emma. Unfortunately you are right about the divide between them and us. its not just social work but nursing as well. I suppose your manager was just trying to advise you about the possibilities of how others may view your scars rather than expressing his personal opinion. If I was you I would get the short sleeves out and ignore them all. Thats easy for me to say but you seem like a well rounded positive person and as time goes on you will get used to people staring and asking questions. If they cant deal with it its their problem. You have moved on and will continue to be successful.
Did you get anywhere with your redeployment? I hope so, I am facing a similar situation but feel that it is down to a managers heavy influence after discovering a past mental health condition.