my first reaction to the ''joke'' by jimmy carr that the variety club mini buses have wrong name as all people in them look alike, was anger and disgust. then thought about it. what do public see when a minibus with ''donated by variety club' parks next to rthem'-- they see a bunch of do-gooders advertising that they give charity to a group of people. how much incentive is that to the public to see each person in that bus as a unique individual. i loath these awful labels we stick on mini-buses, residential homes etc. does anyone agree with me? perhaps we could suggest that jimmy carr spend some of his fees to buy paint to get rid of the labels?
or get rid of Jimmy Carr from our screens....honestly I am soooo bored with these 'comedians' - thirty years ago they thought it was perfectly acceptable to tell 'jokes' based on race, gender and creed and now it's disability. I am similarly disgusted with Ricky Gervais for using an offensive word denoting disability in order to be 'funny'. You've got to wonder at how talented these folk really are when they include this in their material as it seems to me as if they are scrabbling around trying to bring in the shock factor to get a reaction.
However I agree that Variety Club buses and similar should be consigned to the past, they're very labelling and segregate people from wider society.
I'm afraid that their popularity is down to the poor tastes of the general public - only today people queuing for 5 hours to see Jordan aka Katie Price.
Long gone are the days of truly witty /clever humour in favour of jokes about disability and the lowest common denominators of human behaviour.
Rupert M: I'm afraid that their popularity is down to the poor tastes of the general public - only today people queuing for 5 hours to see Jordan aka Katie Price. Long gone are the days of truly witty /clever humour in favour of jokes about disability and the lowest common denominators of human behaviour.
I remember a student sw once saying that jordan was her idol!
Well that's students for you - at least we know that social work is safe in their hands!!!
i agree that variey club buses and similar may be labelling and be seen as segregating - but for many people with profound physical disabilities are one of the few opportunities to access the community if a vehicle is required , sadly public transport is no where near accessible for some and the concept of the mobility vehicle being funded is also not always an option/ availiable.
there needs to be a great deal of investment in the infrastucture to enable everyone to have equal access to public transport , untill then maybe these buses are a necessary option for individuals.
Rupert M: Well that's students for you - at least we know that social work is safe in their hands!!!
RUPERT! Thats a sweeping generalization, dont you think..... Not all students are that bad...well, some of us do our best..... well what I am realy saying is that.... hmmmm, never mind lol
You are quite right 'Dutchconnectionuk' - never lose your passion and ideals.
i am suprised you get through the day with your digust. Life must have been good to you so far if its this you find digusting xxx
suesy q: i agree that variey club buses and similar may be labelling and be seen as segregating - but for many people with profound physical disabilities are one of the few opportunities to access the community if a vehicle is required , sadly public transport is no where near accessible for some and the concept of the mobility vehicle being funded is also not always an option/ availiable. there needs to be a great deal of investment in the infrastucture to enable everyone to have equal access to public transport , untill then maybe these buses are a necessary option for individuals.
I don't think the issue is so much about whether the buses should be used as opposed to if they should have bold logos. It's often a question of advertising,which raises revenue. Something many may be uncomfortable with, but which the service users should benefit from. When the 'spastics society' became 'scope', with a whole new and positive image, the charitable donations slumped overnight. It's a difficult one.
Take the labels off and they still do the same job, though.
I went to see Jimmy Carr live and he was very funny. He did poke fun at a guy in a wheelchair, and the bloke loved it and kept egging him on for more! If you don't like him... don't watch him is my advice :)
Shame on you and your ethical basis 'charley' - perhaps you should question what makes someone with a disability want to be ridiculed - issues of power / oppression??? THINK.
I can't remember exactly what he said as was some time ago. When he did it, I cringed and thought he over stepped the mark, but the guy seemed to enjoy it and kept shouting out for more....
Doesn't make it right but I do believe Jimmy Carr has since apologised for the 'joke'.
charley: I can't remember exactly what he said as was some time ago. When he did it, I cringed and thought he over stepped the mark, but the guy seemed to enjoy it and kept shouting out for more.... Doesn't make it right but I do believe Jimmy Carr has since apologised for the 'joke'.
To be seen to be offended often adds to the embarassment, so the, if you can't beat em join em effect kicks in. Don't be fooled Charley.
charley: I went to see Jimmy Carr live and he was very funny. He did poke fun at a guy in a wheelchair, and the bloke loved it and kept egging him on for more! If you don't like him... don't watch him is my advice :)
There's an approriate line from 'The Office' when David Brent tries to justify his racist joke by saying the "only black guy in the office liked it and wasn't offended" to which one of the workers (white) says "why should only black people be offended by racism?".
My feelings exactly!! I find 'jokes' which are based on discrimination offensive, I find the Jimmy Carr 'joke' offensive. The example you give about the guy in the wheelchair laughing at his own expense doesn't change that. Your other point that if people don't like Jimmy Carr they don't have to watch him is a weak justification, I have never watched Jimmy Carr for more than ten mins - because I don't think he is a witty guy - yet I am subjected to hearing this band of 'humour' because he has raised his profile through discriminatory gags. Thirty / forty years ago we had the likes of Bernard Manning doing the same thing, purile drivel, gags based on race and gender, and yes am sure many people said the same thing 'you don't have to watch it' but unfortunately it affects us all and these views (because that's what they are) validate some people's discriminatory thinking. Fortunately society moved away from this way of thinking and it is largely no longer seen as funny to discriminate against race and gender. It's time to do the same with disabiltiity, it is worrying that people find this acceptable, particularly when there have been recent high profile cases of the effects of hate crime on disabled people.
I see your point,and I agree that there are some jokes that are not that funny at all just "thrilling" because they are shocking and provoke a nervous/amazed laugh.
But can anyone tell me a joke that doesn't play on someone, some group of people's misfortune, misunderstanding or assumptions about other peoples meaning or behaviour?
There is always someone who is embarrassed, made a fool of, shown up or simply misunderstood something. Even a clown in a circus falls down, gets hit, his car falls apart, he gets a pie in his face....
Come on ...tell me a "victim free joke" there's a challenge!
Even the "knock knock" jokes make the teller out to be cleverer that the "who's there'er"
Perhaps the only acceptable jokes are the ones against someone who we all by concensus have agreed needs it...like Tony Blair, George Bush,Thatcher, the bankers etc.
Which means that we decide who it is alright to "victimise" cos we are "right" and have the power to judge.We are just as cruel, but we collectively decide where to allocate our cruelty.
But if we look back even as recently as the nineties, some of the jokes we all thought were fine then have a sharp intake of breath with them now.
And the lawyers for the "DAVE" channel are increasingly excercised reviewing shows that went out fine five years ago, but have brought streams of complaints , and potentially lawsuits.
Do you think that Fawlty Towers would get away with the stereotyped charicature of a Spanish waiter, which survived as a timeless masterpiece...yea even National Treasure status... if it was a brand new show today?
Who is to say what humour will shock in ten years time?
Will we be down to Arthur Askey making a fool of himself singing songs about himself being a buzzy bee again ( granny told me)?
To be safe perhaps we should ban humour altogether?
Unless its against a male english able-bodied heterosexual intelligent middle-class atheist under 60 years old, of average height and weight and "blessed" with reasonable looks?
They seem to be unprotected!
I declare the season open!
( And no...I don't tick all those boxes so don't pick on me!!)
I don't agree at all with what you're saying - a knock knock joke or a clown in a circus is providing humour in an abstract and inoffensive way. There are loads of really funny comedies which don't resort to cheap gags aimed at a specific disadvantaged groups, off the top of my head, Red Dwarf is one and we don't need to go back to Arthur Askey it is possible to have well written comedy which clever and funny yet doesn't offend. Nor do I think comedy or any other entertainment needs to be confined to a white, male middle class group of people, good comedy like any other creative form should be a reflection of society, infact it should be the best of what society has to offer and thus should include us all.
It's not about justification one way or the other. People have an inherent governer that distinguishes right from wrong; the settings on that governer come from life experience and company kept.
Who among us has the ultimate enlightment? Sawatka or Gove.
Where humour involves minorities it becomes uncomfortable. Just walk out.
Practice it tomorrow.
coolforcatz: charley: I went to see Jimmy Carr live and he was very funny. He did poke fun at a guy in a wheelchair, and the bloke loved it and kept egging him on for more! If you don't like him... don't watch him is my advice :) There's an approriate line from 'The Office' when David Brent tries to justify his racist joke by saying the "only black guy in the office liked it and wasn't offended" to which one of the workers (white) says "why should only black people be offended by racism?". My feelings exactly!! I find 'jokes' which are based on discrimination offensive, I find the Jimmy Carr 'joke' offensive. The example you give about the guy in the wheelchair laughing at his own expense doesn't change that. Your other point that if people don't like Jimmy Carr they don't have to watch him is a weak justification, I have never watched Jimmy Carr for more than ten mins - because I don't think he is a witty guy - yet I am subjected to hearing this band of 'humour' because he has raised his profile through discriminatory gags. Thirty / forty years ago we had the likes of Bernard Manning doing the same thing, purile drivel, gags based on race and gender, and yes am sure many people said the same thing 'you don't have to watch it' but unfortunately it affects us all and these views (because that's what they are) validate some people's discriminatory thinking. Fortunately society moved away from this way of thinking and it is largely no longer seen as funny to discriminate against race and gender. It's time to do the same with disabiltiity, it is worrying that people find this acceptable, particularly when there have been recent high profile cases of the effects of hate crime on disabled people.
coolforcatz- I agree with most of what you say, apart from the bit about society fortunately moving away from finding race and gender discrimination funny. I don't think we're quite there yet.
Shirack: charley: I can't remember exactly what he said as was some time ago. When he did it, I cringed and thought he over stepped the mark, but the guy seemed to enjoy it and kept shouting out for more.... Doesn't make it right but I do believe Jimmy Carr has since apologised for the 'joke'. To be seen to be offended often adds to the embarassment, so the, if you can't beat em join em effect kicks in. Don't be fooled Charley.
god forbid people with disabilities are allowed to have a sense of humour and they definitely shouldnt be allowed to laugh at themselves - (and if they do its because they dont understand things the way we special social workers do) A basic human need is to fit in - its no different if you have slightly less physical capacity than the majority...
humour is a way of showing people are accepted - have you never been a newcomer to a group and things have been slightly uneasy and then when they accept you the banter starts??
Whats the secret of comedy?.........................................
....................................................Graham Norton's "straight"
( is that acceptable or offensive?)
romeo- there's a difference between someone laughing with you and someone laughing at you.
The person was not laughing at themselves-they laughed along because others were laughing at them.
Your point about newcomers; I doubt Jimmy Carr was familiar enough with the person for it to feel 'safe' for them. Would the 'joke' make them feel accepted as part of the group or would they have been made to feel 'different' because of their disability?
I am sure the 'joke', however, made Jimmy Carr feel very good about himself.
Silver Sage: Whats the secret of comedy?......................................... ....................................................Graham Norton's "straight" ( is that acceptable or offensive?)
Offentable.
I think the best racist jokes are the ones that make fun of the racist.
Playing cricket up the valleys two teenage girls walked by and shouted at two of the team, who were a bit apart from the rest of us.
Lets call em Sanjit and Paul.
One girl said "Don't see many of your kind up here". Quick as a flash Paul said; "Well, I suppose I am a bit posh". Now that's humour, or am I being teenageist?
Shirack: I think the best racist jokes are the ones that make fun of the racist. Playing cricket up the valleys two teenage girls walked by and shouted at two of the team, who were a bit apart from the rest of us. Lets call em Sanjit and Paul. One girl said "Don't see many of your kind up here". Quick as a flash Paul said; "Well, I suppose I am a bit posh". Now that's humour, or am I being teenageist?
I dunno, has " up the Valleys" got a regionalist, or even nation-ist connotation?
Silver Sage: Shirack: I think the best racist jokes are the ones that make fun of the racist. Playing cricket up the valleys two teenage girls walked by and shouted at two of the team, who were a bit apart from the rest of us. Lets call em Sanjit and Paul. One girl said "Don't see many of your kind up here". Quick as a flash Paul said; "Well, I suppose I am a bit posh". Now that's humour, or am I being teenageist? I dunno, has " up the Valleys" got a regionalist, or even nation-ist connotation?
Pretend otherwise and you go down the patronising route.
I thought it was a colloquial phrase.
For Silver Sage.
" What! you mean my blonde hair".
I only made it up anyway.
Blondeism is OK innit?
Face! Bovvered?
Silver Sage: Face! Bovvered?
Teenageist.
redana: Silver Sage: Face! Bovvered? Teenageist.
Sageist!
The NHS has hired Harry Potter as a consultant.
Apparently 70% of their staff have had no training to work with patients who are Dementors.