My daughters have been subjected to three years of physical and mental abuse by their mother which is all documented by SS, this week alone my eldest has been pushed over into a table during a fit of temper, cutting her back open. She was also threatened with a knife by her mothers new boyfriend.

Yet, it still seems ok to leave the children there when it's clear that they would be safer with Fred West.

I feel I'm failing them by taking them home, which I've been told by SS, my solicitor, the Police and CAIT I have to do or I will get in trouble. But to me, it's like putting them in a cage with a rabid rottweiler.

As social workers, when do you say enough is enough and look to remove the children?

Did you miss the part where I said I HAVE to take them home?

Don't you think I've been battling for the past year to remove these children in to my care only to have Social Services say everything is ok and they should stay with their mum? Even though SS are fully aware not only of the huge amount of physical and mental abuse, but that my daughters have begged both the police and the SW to let them live with me?

I was told today by the current SW (we've had 8 in a year) that because the mother won't admit to everything and lies through her teeth, they can't do anything about it.

Good job the police don't work to these standards. 'Did you murder that person?'   'no'   'oh, thats ok then. On your way....'

Wooried father, I can understand that you must be feeling frustrated and let down by the system (and that's probably putting it mildly) but we are not mindreaders here, there is obviously a history here that we don't know and therefore can't answer.

Why not lay out the situation with as little detail as possible.

eg. Why are Social Services involved with the family?

      Are the children subjects of care orders, supervision orders. residence orders or any other?

Have you taken the matter to court?

Have the children got an independent advocate?

 with this information, someone may be able to respond.

Sorry, I hope this helps.

NSPCC/SS were getting referals 3 years ago from various local sources, but my daughter was bullied in to staying silent.

A year last May, my eldest daughter finally broke her silence at school. She told her teachers that she had been kicked repeatedly on the floor, punched in the head on several occasions, had her hair pulled, ridiculed and even partially strangled. CAIT and SS were called by the school, resulting in the removal of my 3 daughters by SS to a neighbour for safety. This 'safe' neighbour being a convicted drug dealer and fraudster who is a alcoholic, set fire to her own house in a druged state and now is that disabled from substance and alcohol abuse, she can not look after herself and her 14 year old son is her registered carer.

The 2 youngest children were returned to the mother the next day to save them distress as they were too young to speak for themselves so abuse towards them was not regarded as an issue, even though the 5 year old admitted that her mum had thrown a remote control at her head because she had knocked a glass of water over on the floor. She was then bullied into changing the story in to it being yet another accident.

Three weeks after SS involvement, I got a call from a neighbour telling me what had happened and to contact SS. The mother and my childrens school and doctors had all been given my contact details, but nobody saw fit to inform me.

The eldest stayed with the neighbour for about 7 weeks until we had a change of SW, who knew the neighbours history and moved my daughter straight away. She was then moved to her mothers sisters house on condition her mother only saw her on supervised occasions and times.

This didn't happen and both my daughter and her auntie were bullied into silence and my daughter was manipulated into saying everything was fine and she wanted to go home. This was at the time a judge ordered a section 7 report.

The SW doing the S7 report left 2 weeks before court, so the notes were put together and a S7 report was cobbled together, saying that although there had been abuse, it had stopped and the children should stay with mum. 

As soon as the S7 report came out and my ex felt she had won, the abuse started again.

This ranged from pure neglect and insults to causing actual bodily harm. At 10 years old, my daughter was dumped by her mother on a dark country lane at night with no footpath or lighting and left there. My ex returned to see if my daughter was upset by this, found she wasn't so drove off again. She returned later when my daughter was scared and crying and then told her to get in the car.

I have put in for residence but it's ongoing and a fight. I have also asked for my daughters to have an advocate as their mother refused them one, but the judge thinks it a waste of public money and has put it for review.

All this is being put down to a conflict between me and my ex by SS, which is why the judge thinks WE are harming my children!

Yes, i'm very angry and frustrated.

I recognise your information from your previous thread and so for anyone else reading this here is the link: http://www.communitycare.co.uk/carespace/forums/p/393/1425.aspx#1425

Is the s.7 report (started by the social worker who left) that you refer to a more recent development?

I think that there is little to be gained by having resurrected your concerns on a separate 'thread' - you have been given good advive previously and unless there is anything new to add I don't really know how we can help you further. We only have your side of the matter - which may or may not be correct but no-one can tell.

So would you class being subjected to actual bodily harm and being threatened with a knife trivial?

I'm asking as a service user a simple question, where do social workers draw the line?

Hospitalisation? Or do you wait until one of the children is murdered before doing something?

Are your hands tied that badly by policy or are my children just suffering due to incompetence?

Worried Father, I am truly sorry that I do not have answers for you. but I want to acknowledge that I sense your frustration, worry and love for your children and understand that when one is in this deperate situation one asks the same question in different ways to lots of people because all you want is an answer, a clear pathway of what to do.In that respect I think some of the answers you have been given on this thread lack any understanding. I personally don't like the phrase ''one side of the story'', I would prefer to say we are only hearing one perspective. You are asking the question so of course the situation is described  from your perspective and your perspective is every bit as important as that of a social worker, the children's mother or indeed your children. That, unfortunately, doesn't make a solution any easier to find.

The issues you describe are in many ways not dissimilar to those described on the DV thread.

You have obviously tried all the routes available to you and the legal wheels grind so slowly. As I said at the beginning, I don't have answers but there is one thing I would suggest. When the children come to you either bruised or telling you of abusive incidents, don't get drawn in to comment. Take them immediately to your GP and get the child checked out and the injuries noted by a doctor. Don't get too involved, just say something like ''Mary has a huge bruise on her back or Mary says she was pushed and I wonder if you could check her out'' Leave it to the doctor to ask the child what happened etc and take whatever necessary action.They too have a responsibility for child protection.

The other thing I would say is that in the Residency case, try not to focus on how ''bad'' your ex is. Instead focus on the fact that the children want to live with you and you are in aposition to meet their needs in the following ways........etc.

I am really sorry I can't be of more help. Good lucjk

I don't think this is honestly the best place to direct your concerns as none of us know the circumstances and can help in any practical sense.  

While I have the utmost sympathy for anyone experiencing difficulties, I am not sure that this is the most appropriate outlet for your concerns to be honest.

We can acknowledge your difficulties but we can't help you on a practical level which is what you seem to want. 

Noone can answer your question about drawing the line here on this forum because you are looking for specific answers in a specific case. 

Clearly you have your own views about the social workers that you have dealt with and I dont' think anyone saying anything here is going to change that.

In any case, I hope the situation is remedied to your satisfaction.  

It isn't unlikely that in an environment of seething allegations, social workers are fearful to come down on either side and are concerned that it is six-of-one and half-a-dozen of the other.

 I can only advise that you write down everything that you know, preferably in the form of a statement/affadavit, with the assistance of your solicitor. Don't write anything down that is hearsay, opinion, conjecture. Don't detail accusations - that is for others to perform. If you didn't see something happen yourself, don't refer to it - though you can refer to events recalled to you by another in conversation (such as from a daughter.) If you saw an injury but didn't see it inflicted, you cannot construe how it was caused unless you witnessed the event or the event was detailed to you (and even such conversations can be deemed inadmissable.) Place special emphasis on dates, times and locations to help others corelate what you have detailed.

When you are finished you will probably find that you don't have a great deal that you can point at and say "of that I am certain, and someone else will be certain of it." This though is what the social workers and the police have to go on. Whilst the Family Courts work on inarguable fact, they also work on opinion, likely probability and the trappings of humanity (such as prejudice and suspicion.) However this is for the judge to be privy to, and not for you to start off with.  Your perceived evidence and opinion may look concrete to you and it has become in your eyes inconceivable that no-one would support your case - but the bottom line is that facts, not opinions help convince people whose jobs are concerned (or should be) only with facts.

Such a document is a hugely useful resource - it provides the social workers and police with a good source of material, and it provides others with the concern that in the face of such a document there is no good excuse for not investigating matters. Simply overwealming folk with a huge weight of allegations and accusations (even when they are absolutely true in your mind) doesn't do the trick. Even when your thoughts are seething, a calm and measured and in particular accurate approach to matters never fails to impress, and invariably helps gain a belief in your perspective.