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Antidepressants

Last post 05-09-2008 5:05 PM by Merc. 18 replies.
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  • 02-27-2008 10:47 AM

    Antidepressants

    What's the social work view of antidepressants following the recent research which suggested they are no better than placebo for most people? I did a blog on it and am doing a feature for the magazine in a couple of weeks. I guess social workers have always believed that problems like depression have their origin in societal issues rather than brain chemicals! Everyone else is just catching up!

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  • 02-27-2008 11:51 AM In reply to

    Re: Antidepressants

    It's not really rocket science - I'm still waiting for the government's talking therapy programme to start though

  • 02-27-2008 3:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Antidepressants

    Do people think tougher action should be taken on antidepressants?

    For instance, should the ban on prescribing antidepressants (except Prozac) for under-18s be extended to either include Prozac or take in adults as well, pretty much forcing resources into talking therapies?

  • 02-27-2008 3:59 PM In reply to

    • Ed
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    Re: Antidepressants

    I'm not sure to be honest. My particular interest is regarding phobias as I suffer from emetophobia (fear of vomiting). I have been told that antidepressants could help but Cognitive behavioural Therapy would be needed to tackle any underlying anxiety or issues and i have undertaken this. I don't think it will ever disappear and I won't relish someone vomiting near me but hopefully I can cope better nowadays. One thing I found very interesting was that i could theoretically be hypnotised and a doctor could take away my phobia of sickness. However, without work tackling the route of the cause, I would be susceptible to getting a separate potentially worse phobia sucha as aggraphobia.

    As for working on depression, could it be that patients think they must feel better because they have taken medication?

  • 03-01-2008 7:07 PM In reply to

    • get1
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-01-2008

    Re: Antidepressants

    anti-depressants work, it's just that you have to clinically depressed for them to do so.the same applie to ect-not depressed - it doesnae work. the words depression and even more stupid words like stress are thrown around like confetti, mostly by uneducated buffoons.

     

    people can feel low and down because of societal issues,you know, non-copers and the like but they do not make you clinically depressed, again, the view of buffoons. 

  • 03-06-2008 5:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Antidepressants

    Hi I have taken antidepressants since having a breakdown. I can't really say if they have worked, after all, the underlying issues as to why the breakdown happened have not been addressed. CBT is supposed to be coming my way I don't know when. It is 6 months since my breakdown, what I know would have helped me is getting back into a meaningful job. Rogers says about work  'it boots self-esteem and provides a sense of purpose and accomplishment. Work enables people to enter, or re-enter, the mainstreem after hospitalisation (Rogers 1995, cited in Repper and Perkins 2003. p.34) For me happiness does not come in a pill!

  • 03-06-2008 5:27 PM In reply to

    Re: Antidepressants

    I have spoken to someone on Breathing Space recently and apparently the number of people whos' depression is caused by a chemical imbalance is relatively small.Therefore the number of people with depression being successfully treated chemically will be small. Most good GPs will only prescribe anti depressants if they really feel the patient will benefit. A good GP will always recomend counselling combined with antidepressant therapy with the aim of withdrawing the drugs. Problem is ....not enough counselling services to accomodate the numbers seeking help.

    Good luck sweetgrass      xxx

  • 03-17-2008 8:12 PM In reply to

    • aitch
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    Re: Antidepressants

    I'd not picked up this thread until I read Simeon's article in Community Care, which prompted me to respond.  It has been suggested that a chemical imbalance in the brain causes depression, but what about turning that around and thinking whether or not depression can cause a chemical imbalance in the brain - if that is the case, amending the chemical imbalance can reduce the incidence of depression but will explain why it's not a cure.

    I have been looking into the work of the Human Givens Institute over the last couple of years and I find their analysis of the causes and responses to depression to be very interesting.  In a nutshell depression is caused by being in an emotionally highly aroused state (stress, worry, high levels of anxiety), this in turn causes sleep problems: the sleep problems are based on the theory that the purpose of REM (dreaming) sleep time is for the brain to deal with and repair itself from the 'unexpressed emotions' of the day (too much thinking and worrying about problems and not enough dealing with them) - the brain does this by 'completing' the emotionally arousing events of the day which is experienced through dreaming which is done in metaphore (which is why dreams can often have so many features).  If there have been too many unexpressed emotions from the previous day the brain will take longer to discharge these emotions through dreaming, leaving little time for the physical renewal time during sleep, resulting in the patient waking feeling tired.  It is suggested that the way in which antidepressants actually work is to reduce the amount of time spent dreaming and so restoring the balance between dream and physically recuperative sleep.  I can't do the full explanation justice here but another point suggested is that in the most severely depressed person there is an overlap between the normal REM sleep state and times when the patient is apparently awake, when the patient seems to be hallucinating - this makes sense if you think that in the REM state the brain is working in metaphor.  Psychotherapy has a negative effect on depression because it causes the patient to think more deeply about their problems, so increasing the amount of time spent in REM sleep, a vicious circle.  Continually going over past problems and issues, rather than discharging them, reinforces them in the mind and actually makes them worse.

    Anyone can try the dream theory out for themselves quite easily, although it might take a little practice at first.  When you recall a dream make a note of the key features, but particularly the emotions behind what was happening in your dream.  Then think back over the previous day, particularly for events that were emotionally arousing but where you did not have the chance to express this at the time (this is the most difficult bit because by the very nature of the dream your brain has discharged the emotions of those events) and the odds are you will find that the emotions you felt in your dreams are the same emotions you felt but did not express the previous day.  For example, if you felt exposed in your dream (eg, naked) then you might have felt exposed the previous day when you went to visit a difficult client, or had to 'wing it' at an important meeting.  The other features of your dream (people, places) will probably link to people you have met or talked about or places you have been or talked about.  Dreaming of walking in a strange town might be because you had a conversation about you or someone else selling and moving house to a new location.  Dreaming of committing adultery might be because your partner complained that you spend too much time at work / on the computer / down the pub and not enough with him / her / the family but because you know he / she is right you didn't respond.  Having supressed the emotion at the time it comes out in a dream.

    I was quite skeptical at first but once I started checking my dreams against the previous day's worries and events it really did begin to make sense.  It's be nice to hear of others' experience of trying this.

  • 03-18-2008 11:02 AM In reply to

    Re: Antidepressants

     Hi aitch

    I read your comment with interest. Unfortunately I don't think I know enough about the Human Givens Institute to comment much about its effectiveness. I'd like to see some independent scientific studies into the effectiveness of their approach. But the sleep and dream theory is certainly very interesting and worth looking into further.

     Simeon

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  • 03-18-2008 1:15 PM In reply to

    • aitch
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    Re: Antidepressants

    Hi Simeon

    Many thanks for putting in the Institute hyperlink.  Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much in the way of independent scientific study, certainly compared to more historic approaches, especially CBT which fares better than traditional psychotherapy in treating depression.  However I understand that there is growing popularity for the approach among various health practitioners.  The term Human Givens comes from the principle that there are a number of 'givens' needed for optimal physical, emotional and mental health which are summarised here: http://www.humangivens.com/pages.php?pageid=12

    The sleep and dream theory is the foundation and the place to start (not the book shown on the above link).  The HGI do have a book (cheaper on Amazon) just explaining the dream theory but a word of warning - I found the first half of the book was quite dreary and like wading through mud before suddenly becoming exciting to read with the principles 'falling into place'.  I say this because, having asked others who have read the book, I found that I'm far from alone in my experience of this book (or others they produce)!

    aitch

  • 03-19-2008 4:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Antidepressants

    The theory you mentioned actually makes a lot of sense. Im going to try and read up on that. Sounds fantastic.I have suffered from depression and my main symptom is fatigue. When Im not feeling "well" I could sleep for Scotland . And no matter how much I sleep I get Im exhausted. Maybe now I know why?

  • 03-20-2008 1:17 PM In reply to

    • aitch
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    Re: Antidepressants

    It does make so much sense, and it's extremely simple, which is why I like it so much.  Sometimes if I find myself having the same or similar dreams I will work back over them because there is probably some underlying problem I'm worrying about but at an almost sub-conscious level.  And if something happens during the day that is highly emotional (particularly embarrassment or anger) I make a point of dealing with it as soon as possible that day - it might mean speaking to someone that has upset me and clearing the air or clarifying what was meant, or even just acknowledging the impact.  Writing about it in a diary might help as another way of expressing the emotion.  It doesn't stop you having bad days or getting stressed but understanding the impact does mean you can choose to deal with it that day and move on a lot quicker.  Needless to say, this also explains how watching emotionally arousing TV late at night, even the late news, can cause nightmares!  Anyway, best of luck and I hope it works for you too.

  • 03-20-2008 3:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Antidepressants

     I know what you mean about late-night TV - it can result in colourful dreams. How did you find out about this theory?

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  • 03-20-2008 7:02 PM In reply to

    • aitch
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    • Kent

    Re: Antidepressants

    I bit the bullet and went on one of the Mindfields day seminars, they're not particularly expensive as seminars go - their leaflets regularly fall out of social care publications - and picked up the book on dreaming while I was there.

  • 04-28-2008 11:42 AM In reply to