Are they (you) people who retain their social work values and apply them strategically to the way services are planned and delivered; are good at motivation and encouragement, and argue strongly for resources with the number crunchers?

Or are they rationers, buck-passers and the like?

I am extremely lucky to have a brilliant manager. She is always available, actively works cases and doesn't just delegate, is good for a laugh, is in-tune with the morale of the team and is able to challenge senior managers.  We are going to be re-organised (again!!!) soon and I will go to whichever team she ends up managing.

My last manager was an absolute waste of space. His entire focus was on keeping senior management happy and even though we hjad a number of very valuable team members he tended to side with the uneducated opinionated fools who only ever succeeded in bringing the team down. His idea of being busy was to sit at his computer and type absolute nonsense to avoid making eye contact. The manager before him was really good, a team player who always listened to everyone and had a very deep understanding of what the job entailed. She was also immune to the  Bull S**T from those within the team who "talked a good fight ". I really missed her when she went on mat leave and hoped this new one would be a welcome change. Bloody disaster !!!

What a potential 'can of worms' your question is! To be honest Managers range from the absolutely awful to the absolutely brilliant but there seems to be little evidence that there are consistent standards set for them so, yes, many seem unable to look outside of budgets and targets and adopt a totally 'jobsworth' and 'anal' approach whereas others are able to work creatively, look outside of the 'box' and put Service Users first and genuinely care for their staff - I hope that I came under the second category becuase I couldn't treat colleagues in the way that I too often was treated.

Can of worms indeed.  But Rupert's comment inspires another question: Is your manager (Are you) a manager or a leader?  A manager is someone who 'manages'  - administers, controls - it's a very 'sedentary' kind of occupation.  A leader on the other hand will 'show the way by going first', someone who sets an example, inspires.  Leadership is more akin to the nature of social work yet the cynic in me says that in LA social work it is much easier for those in management/leadership positions to 'manage' rather than lead.  Overworked, often understaffed, with budget constraints everywhere it's easy to slip into focussing on the processes that make up the management function rather than have the energy to be inspirational.

 Have you come across many leaders in your work? I think managers are far more common!

I recently heard Ray Jones, ex-director of social services at Wiltshire Council, give a really good speech on management and leadership in social care, which I found helpful in terms of trying to differentiate between management and leadership. He said that 'managing' tends to be about keeping the show on the road whereas leadership is about trying new ways of doing things to make a difference rather than just keeping them as they are.

He also put forward the quite comforting idea that if you are a good frontline practitioner then you will make a good manager as your social care values will be sound.

To answer the previous question - definitely more managers than leaders!  But I think that's because there is so much pressure on all levels of management to meet budgets, eligibility criteria and targets that there is little space left for creativity and making a difference unless the manager is strong enough and determined enough to make that space.

Id like to agree with a previuos message saying a good front line worker would make a good manager but lets look at the football world  for a minute. Many excellent footballers go into team management and fail disastrously, much to the fans disgust.Im afraid it would appear to be the same for practitioners because when they get into the big office goals and priorities change. It shouldnt but it does.

To be fair there are good and bad examples of any kind of worker in every job in the world, however i must say that i am appalled by how many examples of bad management i have seen in social care.  I cant even begin to tell you some of the shocking decisions or actions certain individuals have made.  What upsets me the most is that many brilliant workers end up leaving their posts because they do not feel that they are being supported by their manager or because they simply don't trust them.

 It amazes me how certain people can get such jobs which could ultimatley led to a child dieing.  I appreciate that my views are based on my own organisation and are not neccessarily typical of the managers across the nation.

The problem with managers  in social work is the same as managers in other professions/sectors.........POWER...unfortunately many want it but few are equipped for it. and we all know what can happen when power ends up in the wrong hands.

 We've just compiled a list of some of the finest managers from film and TV to help inform this debate. Check them out and let me know what you think.

Can you think of any other clips we could have included? How do these lot compare to real managers? 

Awwwww its not letting me access it...says page cannot be found.........Is David brent in there ?

Hi Anne

I was actually "tweaking" something on the page, and it had been pulled from the site.

It is now live again, and should be working. Any problems, let me know.

For the record - David Brent is in there, number 3 in our list, along with the managerial master himself, Basil Fawlty

 Briggers