It seems the BBC may allow the BNP to be represented on the TV programme Question Time. Do you agree? Should they be allowed such a mainstream platform to spread their message?
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Should the main Political parties engage directly in refuting the policies of the BNP or should they avoid such public debate? Surely better to take the BNP on in public and expose their arguments for what they are: ill-informed invective.
There's a strongly argued article here about why fascists should not be permitted a platform: http://mostlywater.org/no_platform_fascism
It begs the question however, what do we do when the BNP do achieve a platform? Recent electoral successes (largely due to the collapse in the vote of the main parties) is allowing this for the BNP, as is the craven attitude of the BBC.
In this situation, I'd argue that we need to answer the BNP point by point, proving that people's social and economic problems are not a result of racial diversity.
To do this however would require an exploration of the ACTUAL causes of people's social and economic problems, and the suggestion of alternative ways to address them. This is somewhere where mainstream politicians would be unlikely to go, as they are so implicated in the current social and economic system that is based on exploitation and divide and rule and thus creates poverty, racism and a host of other social ills.
Mainstream politicians have also now so discredited themselves that even where they occassionally make aposite points, many people are no longer prepared to listen to them.
The question is therefore now much bigger than 'do we allow the BNP to speak or not?', it is now 'how can we put forward an alternative that people who have been robbed of a voice by the crisis of political representation, and robbed of their means of survival by the crisis of the world economy will actually take seriously, rather than falling into the sinister grip of a fascist party intent on creating racial conflict as their road to a ruthless and authoritarian dictatorship.
River: "It begs the question however, what do we do when the BNP do achieve a platform? Recent electoral successes (largely due to the collapse in the vote of the main parties) is allowing this for the BNP, as is the craven attitude of the BBC".
A bit unfair to the Beeb, given that it has, in its statutes, an obligation to allow air time to all legal political parties which are validated through the ballot box. Its not the BBC's fault that people have voted, in significant numbers, for the BNP. At least on Question Time any views expressed will be challenged; the BBC could meet its duty by simply giving the BNP time on air to promulgate its views.
Whilst deploring the BNP and its messages of hate I think that they should be allowed on Question Time
Surely by banning them we would just be engaging in their type of politics, i.e. narrow minded and non-inclusive. Hopefully when they do appear the BBC ensures the rest of the panel is as diverse as possible
I agree.
We have feeedom of speech within the law in UK. If they break the law (inciting violence, hatred etc) then they should be prosecuted for it but we can't prevent them from speaking at all. That's not what democracy is about.
Anyway - as others have said I'd rather expose their bigotry in debate than make them the 'silent martyrs' picking up the 'underdog' or 'sympathy' vote.
Cheers,
Stuart
Visit my blog at http://stuartsorensen.wordpress.com/
Although I do not agree with the politics of the BNP, they do have the right to appear on Question time, and likewise people have the right to hear their views via a public debate. It is only by acknowledging and understanding (at least trying) the views of the BNP that we can show the arguments they put forward for what they are, ie messages of hate and bigotry, it is only by allowing them to speak that they can be exposed.
Avis la Fin
The problem with exposing bigotry in debate is that hypocrites always crumble when faced with bigots.
The politicians who will be pitched up against the BNP have actively pandered to their racism - the recent cuts in asylum seekers' allowances is just one example of this.
Our current crop of politicians have also mired themselves in overindulgence in the supremely lax expenses system, they and their big-business funded parties will win little sympathy among the working class communities targeted by the BNP.
My main point is that the key issue of today is finding a way to offer a much better anti-racist political alternative that can re-represent those millions disenfranchised by our current parody of democracy, otherwise the BNP will find ways to seep their poison through, with or without the help of the BBC.
The phrase that comes to mind is "give a fool enough rope and he will hang himself".
By silencing them, the BBC gives the impression that mainstream parties are scared of them and makes them more attractive to people who don't truly understand their policies but are fed up and disillusioned with those of the main parties.
On the other hand, by allowing them to engage in debate with the main parties, they will show themselves for what they are: bigoted fools.
queenb:The phrase that comes to mind is "give a fool enough rope and he will hang himself"
There is another issue that hasnt been discussed and that is expectations.
Many 'liberals' have a particular view of the BNP, and groups and parties like them, that they are made up of stupid people who cant stand up to intense political debate or questioning of their ideals. Assuming this is a slippery slope. The reason that the BNP gain votes at all isnt because they are raging racists, its because they package their racism in a moderate centre ground of reasonable action. They may not be reasonable at all but they make it sound to many that they are. You ever read the BNP position on thing unrelated to race? It all reads like pretty reasonable moderate ideas for how to tackle issues. This is not the action of a stupid political party.
As for the expectations, well if we are going to assume that the BNP representative on QuestionTime isnt going to be able to debate issues in an informed and practiced way, well they are only going to have to tie their shoes for people to be impressed. If you expect the BNP to fail at debate, then they wont have to do much to beat expectations and impress folk.
As a liberal myself I loath the idea of the BNP and dont really want them to be on Questiontime....problem is that also as a liberal im a big supporter of free speech and the right for people to hear what political parties have to say.
"We speak, and the word goes out beyond us, to consequences and ends which we had not conceived of." - Gadamer
The difficulty for Politicians in the main parties is that the BNP do address issues which ordinary people are concerned about. They do it using odious analysis and by offering distasteful (at best) solutions, but, with the main parties avoiding the issues, they are able to occupy the "vacuum".
Perhaps open confrontation with the BNP will force the main parties to address some issues that they would rather sweep under the carpet. Well, we can always hope!
We can only hope that they will be exposed for what they are on Question Time, but my concern is that appearing on the programme will for many people give them an air of respectability that they don't currently have
Freedom of speech is a vital component of our society and should be exercised by all who feel they have something positive to contribute. I personally doubt that anything positive can come directly from the BNP, but they may raise issues that a lot of people have concerns with, such as the current levels of imigration in this country. I do not agree with anything the BNP stands for, but there should be tighter restrictions on people entering the country. We are a small nation by any measure and there is only so much / many we can take before the pot runs dry so to speak.
of course they should be allowed on QT. only a facist would deny freedom of speech.
I'm quite looking forward to this edition of Question Time - it'll be interesting to see if Griffin manages to keep the "reasonable" facade he's worked on or if the mask will slip and reveal him to be the racist nutter that he is. Having said that, I'd much rather see him go head to head with Paxman. That would be an interview worth seeing.
Kirst: I'm quite looking forward to this edition of Question Time - it'll be interesting to see if Griffin manages to keep the "reasonable" facade he's worked on or if the mask will slip and reveal him to be the racist nutter that he is. Having said that, I'd much rather see him go head to head with Paxman. That would be an interview worth seeing.
or kirsty wark. what an attractive woman that is. a milf. her parents lived near me when growing up and used to see her around my way.
simeon2: It seems the BBC may allow the BNP to be represented on the TV programme Question Time. Do you agree? Should they be allowed such a mainstream platform to spread their message?
"It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that show what we truly are" "Worry does not equal control"
Coincidentally I've just finished a couple of blog posts on today's events regarding the BNP. If anyone's interested they're here:
http://stuartsorensen.wordpress.com/
There are two posts one after the other so it might be worth scrolling down one before you start.
Apparently Peter Hain wanted them banned as their constitution only allowed white caucasian people to join and thus their restrictive nature mean they flaunt BBC rules. Would any non-white or non-caucasian want to join the BNP?
As much as I think BNP are abhorrent they did attract over 1m votes in the last European elections and so they can claim to represent a significant number of UK citizens, that perhaps shows more about the inherent racism and or how gullible voters are.
Yes they do wrap up racist views in very clever ways and also Question Time will not expose that deceit as frankly who still watches it? Does your average Daily Mail / Sun "p**i basher" / lets hang all asylum seeker watch this progamme?
If you want to raise the profile of the obnoxious BNP surely the best way is threaten to ban them from appearing on TV. Job done i think!!!!
SPeye: Apparently Peter Hain wanted them banned as their constitution only allowed white caucasian people to join and thus their restrictive nature mean they flaunt BBC rules. Would any non-white or non-caucasian want to join the BNP? As much as I think BNP are abhorrent they did attract over 1m votes in the last European elections and so they can claim to represent a significant number of UK citizens, that perhaps shows more about the inherent racism and or how gullible voters are. Yes they do wrap up racist views in very clever ways and also Question Time will not expose that deceit as frankly who still watches it? Does your average Daily Mail / Sun "p**i basher" / lets hang all asylum seeker watch this progamme? If you want to raise the profile of the obnoxious BNP surely the best way is threaten to ban them from appearing on TV. Job done i think!!!!
Not that this justifies them in any way at all (and please don't take this to mean that I agree with them because I DON'T!!) but it isn't that black people aren't allowed to join, it's that you have to be able to prove you are British and your family tree can be traced back to Britain since before a certain year, and coincidentally no black people have been able to do it so far. At least that's what I understood from a radio interview I was listening to!
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You may want to know that Tichmagoo is referring to kirsty Wark as a "milf" this trnslates to a "Mum I'd Like to F**k" I have taken action and reported this as abusive, can I urge you all to do the same; if this comment was made in the workplace, in front of strangers it would be perceived as gross miconduct at the very least.[
Thanks for reporting this. Can I please remind all forum users not to use sexist or derogotary language on CareSpace
The BNP seems to have achieved, on the cheap, one of the big aims of Political Parties: PUBLICITY! Whether it translates into votes remains to be seen.
who else would you like to ban from tv you don't agree with?
voltaire: Kirst: I'm quite looking forward to this edition of Question Time - it'll be interesting to see if Griffin manages to keep the "reasonable" facade he's worked on or if the mask will slip and reveal him to be the racist nutter that he is. Having said that, I'd much rather see him go head to head with Paxman. That would be an interview worth seeing. or kirsty wark. what an attractive woman that is. a milf. her parents lived near me when growing up and used to see her around my way. To all forum readers You may want to know that Tichmagoo is referring to kirsty Wark as a "milf" this trnslates to a "Mum I'd Like to F**k" I have taken action and reported this as abusive, can I urge you all to do the same; if this comment was made in the workplace, in front of strangers it would be perceived as gross miconduct at the very least.[
it also means mature but thats another point.
why wait 3 weeks?
how do you get done with gross misconduct in the pub?
my apologies.