Are these shoes....
really more appropriate for social workers than these....?
According to a story in the Mail (yes, I know) one council apparently thinks so and has required men in the children's services department to wear "dress shoes" and has banned women from wearing mini skirts.
Is this fair? How would you react if they introduced this policy to your council?
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Personally, I wouldn't like to dress in miniskirts to work because I don't like exposing much of myself (I have nice legs anyway); besides, I don't feel comfortable in them. I prefer trousers, maxi or kneelength skirts and dresses.
Some people look very nice in mini skirts! Not me with short fat hairy bandy legs, I prefer trousers!
I think a local authority which specifies particular items of dress to be worn or not worn is going too far, especially (if as seems to be the case here) they are singling out a specific department. There should be a general statement for all employees that they should be aware that they are meeting members of the public and are representing the Council and that therefore smart dress is required. Then it is up to managers to pick up members of staff who are a little too distinctive or messy and have a quiet word. As a professional Social Worker I have never gone for the dungarees and sandals look (honestly, did anybody really), nor for the scruffy denims and trainers look (justified on the grounds that we should identify with service users and not intimidate them). To be honest if I am being visited by a professional person, I expect them to dress the part whether they be a doctor, nurse, insurance person, whatever, and most of my service users showed no sign of being intimidated by the sight of me in a suit! I did tend to whip off the tiara and hide the BMW round the corner though....
I like to ensure that I dress appropriately, but I'm glad that my local authority gives workers the flexibility to wear what they want within reason. I've seen assessment officers for initial assessment teams going out in t-shirts, jeans and trainers. They get the job done, so what's the problem?
I think it's important to make sure that you 'dress for the occasion' though.
For example:
If I'm going to court I ensure that I am wearing my suit, tie, and clean shoes.
If I'm going out to do direct work with a child, I might dress more casually. Casual shirt/polo, jeans, trainers. Same for if I know I'm in the office all day making calls, typing reports/visits etc.
If I'm on duty, I'll normally wear a shirt, some smarter trousers or jeans, and a cleaner pair of trainers just in case I do have to pop out.
Going on visits can be a difficult one. I am very concious of young people perhaps not feeling comfortable talking to someone who turns up to their house in a shirt and tie. I would have felt nervous when I was their age, and Social Workers are generally trying to help them so I have no intention of dressing in a manner that a young, vulnerable person could perceive as 'intimidating'. I also wouldn't want to get on my hands and knees, or be doing drawing with a young person in my best shirt/suit. It's a tough one, but I think Social Workers have the skills to gauge this kind of thing.
Dictating what a Social Worker wears seems to go against the independent nature of the job. I feel what I wear is an important tool in working with people. If I'm going to someone's house on a serious child protection matter I will want to look smart to emphasise the importance of my role. It's up and down, but I wouldn't want to be restricted to just one way of dressing. It's like our skills as Social Workers. You don't go out with one way of doing something, we use eclecticism in our practice, and I use it in the way I dress.
Given that the average ‘young person’ laughs at anybody over the age of 19 trying to pass as one of them, I sense that those of you chasing the latest brand trainers are as much of a case for mirth as the stuffy suit wearing social worker. On the odd occasion that a ‘young person’ gets to see a doctor, I am fairly certain that the said medic does not run behind the surgery screen to change into their jeans and trainers so that they do not distress the said patient. Bit a of an assumption this but, if some of us know we have dirty trainers we need to change if we are going on a visit, shouldn’t we just wear clean attire to work? I readily accept that as a shoe-wearing social worker I might be missing the point and possibly stigmatising.
Regardless of your footwear, I think you a Social Worker who is missing the point and stigmatising. Especially considering you seem to have such incredible knowledge of 'young people' that you seem to understand exactly how they think about people 'over the age of 19 trying to pass as one of them'.
I also don't think that you've grasped the difference in role between that of a 'Doctor' and a 'Social Worker'.
Personally I just think it's sad that employers who are happy to allow individual social workers to make decisions that can have huge ramifications for people's safety and lives don't also think we are capable of dressing ourselves properly in the mornings!
Oh so true!
I'm lucky where I work we can more or less wear what we like as long as we don't offend the boundaries of decency!
If we have to go to Court we dress smartly. If we are out and about we wear what we feel comfortable in and what we feel would put the families at ease - we want people to work with us and feel they can approach us not scare them off with officialdom.
I recently went on a visit after I had spent the morning in Court and therefore was suited and booted - the mum I visited took one look at me and said 'you've come to take the children'. I hadn't but when I asked her why she had said that she said why else would I be looking so offical.
Just a few thoughts:
I think this is somewhat OTT.
While some dress sense maybe required for certain situations eg court, ( smart suit shirt tie etc) - working with Sex offenders (no mini skirts, cleavage exposure etc). Do dress shoes form a safe Occupational and health footwear item – if you may need to run away from danger?
Such policies are so full of holes as they can never seek to cover all contingences. And what makes good/appropriate fashion sense to one may not to another.
I remember back 24 years ago as child protection case worker being told I had to wear shirt and tie, no jeans and shoes not trainers. My team leader couldn't have cared less but Management did and so the directive came down the line.
So off I went to the Oxfam shop and bought 2 fluorescent ties ( 70's fashions style) and 2 dickie bow ties ( one a roger rabbit one). most of the time I took them off when outside of the office but on those occasions I kept them on, clients thought the whole thing ridicules. I believe by and large clients prefer their workers to dress in manner that is safe and ‘normal’ not over powering or over stating any class division.
On those occasions when I knew I was not going to be out of the office I would over state the dress code eg shirt and tie would not match, old fashion styles etc. This is where the policy would have to be very prescriptive and would become bogged in the details.
I've seen colleagues wearing shorts (females not males & the short type not the knee length) and leggings teamed with denim micro mini skirts. IMHO this is totally inappropriate attire for a SW. I would never dream of wearing trainers to work either, IMHO trainers are for the gym
I think it really is just a case of common sense. Speaking primarily from a male perspective, it's a fact of life that people will often judge each other by their appearance, e.g., teachers, the police and solicitors know this which is why they dress as they do and the truth is it usually works, i.e., they are often automatically given a high level of status and authority. Visit a family at home or attend a meeting whilst wearing a smart suit and you will see what I mean. The truth is, if social workers dress like they've just been skateboarding then in some circumstances they may have to work extra hard to prove to families and other professionals that they have a high level of knowledge and competence before they are given status and authority. Conversely, dressing like a solicitor all of the time may provide its own problems, i.e., it may be intimidating to children and parents who are already anxious about meeting a social worker in the first place. In which case, the worker may have to work extra hard to break down those barriers to good communication and engagement, which is certainly not impossible, teachers seem to manage to do this very well.
Personally, I dress for the occasion. I will wear a suit to court and even some meetings where I want the focus to be on my message and I don't want anything to distract from it. On most other days I will find a middle ground and dress smart casual, i.e., shirt, shoes, smart jeans or casual trousers. If I'm doing direct work with a child then I may dress even more casual, i.e., trainers, jeans, and t-shirt.
I certainly wouldn't go so far as having a dress code and I don't see how a local authority could enforce one but, in my experience at least, there is a case to be made that we don't always do ourselves any favours. The job's tough enough as it is and the image of social workers is rarely positive and I think sometimes the way we dress can make it either tougher or just a bit easier. I know what I would prefer.
bmf, you are right I am bang to rights and it's a fair cop; I have learn't nothing in 26 years of frontline practice. Sorry that your super trendy down with the kids, if that is the correct current lingo, personality has been hurt. Please direct me to the nearest thought control social worker re-training venue.
I agree with Grinch. However, I have known social workers arrive in work with scruffy jeans and t shirts, unshaven and looking like they couldn't care less and don't really want to be there. I have know women social workers ( and health visitors) wearing their their top so low they were spilling out onto the conference table. Grinch suggests using common sense, and I fully support this, but what do you do with the few who dress as described above? I know words were had but the workers took offence and ignored it.
absolutely no offence taken what so ever so. I just felt that given your wealth of experience, after 26 years of frontline practice, that you might have a better grasp of anti-oppressive practice and the harm that over-generalisation can have.
Not quite sure if 'super trendy down with the kids' is the correct terminology as such, I guess it's just being able to gauge the situation appropriately rather than acting in a uniform (pardon the pun) manner at all times.
Fondest regards,
bmf
Actually bmf as someone who has the misfortune to travel everyday with children on a bus, I do have a super acurate knowledge of what they think of their teachers and vicars and indeed their social and probation workers who try to impress them by their knowledge of the "street " and the latest download and pair of trainers they just happen to have acquired as if by magic just before they have the conversation with them. I ma not sure which is more amusing, their mirth or the hurt feelings of the adults who really need to know better.
Funny that, I also happen to use public transport every day as well. I wouldn't consider my journey a 'misfortune' either. But of course, people can have different perceptions of exactly the same thing. I think you have a knowledge of those young people who share the same transport as you, but again, you seem to be making inferences. It's not about 'knowledge of the street', it's about being able to relate to some extent to the problems that they face every day.
I really hope that after gaining a few more years of experience, I don't become as bitter as you about the people that I thoroughly enjoy working with, professionals, parents and young people alike. In fact, I hope I don't become as miserable and as bitter as you full stop. Yes, that is a generalisation of the numerous posts I've seen of yours on here. If your need to pick fights with people on here transfers into your practice in the real world, then I pity you and all those who work with you.
Dear me bmf, such anger over a difference of views. For your information I do not have an ounce of bitterness about me at all. Plenty of irony though. Given that social workers are so fond of the word passion, I’ll let you into a little secret, though of course appreciating that secrets are bad; I remain as passionate about social work and the rights of users of care services as I was when I qualified and stood in line with people I worked with to fight and scrape for every service that would add quality to their lives. And that was only day one.
I believe in the right of service users to have self-determination, you may choose to see yourself as their only salvation.
What I find amusing about the new social work is that we are so encouraged to be individualistic and parochial and defensive and obsessed with our own self worth that we have lost sight of the fact that without a collective vision of how to achieve social justice and real anti-oppressive practice, and yes I do mean that awful outdated class and poverty based approach just to be a bit more miserable, we are just functionaries of our employers, running around doling out resources on their instructions while deluding ourselves that we are autonomous practitioners.
Again sir, no anger what so ever. I'm not really sure where you drew that impression from. It was simply an observation.
I think it's less about 'new social work' and more about 'postmodern social work'. I'm not really sure what you get this 'individualistic, and parochial, and defensive and obsessed with our own self worth' thing from in regards to your concept of 'new social work'.
I do enjoy your incredible sage like wisdom of all that is Social Work. As them there kids on the street say, it is the 'superlolz'.
recently worked with a colleague who went out to a bathing assessment wearing leggings and a denim micro min combo, thats just wrong. Felt sorry for the old dear on the recieving end of that one lol!!!
bmf I get my despair from being subjected to dross and drivel that has no basis in anything tangible but thinks itself clever by self-defining as post-modern social work. Knowing a bit of pop Althusser and Benjamin I do find it somewhat appropriate that you are celebrating a pseudo discipline that has as its claim the denial that there can be objective truths. That I make it my business to know and debunk and revile such nonsense is what makes me the sage I am.
Hello bmf and Nihat Erol,
This is a joke surely or are you two great friends who take a pop at each other on a regular basis?
It it's serious, let it go. We're all entitled to an opinion. You're both bright people with a lot to say. I look forward to reading your views on other subjects.
Have a good day both.
I agree RoseA, everyone has thier own opinion!
Also, are you both ment to be at work?
Its all down to common sense... they cannot implement a dress code surely?
Oh well!!
Have a nice dayyy
RoseA, I agree and thanks
I do think that social workers should be allowed to wear what they feel is appropriate, and most social workers will dress smartly when they have a meeting to attend or a more formal occasion, even if they are more relaxed in their dress when making home visits or when sat on the floor with young children, for example.
But I did cringe yesterday while in a review meeting with parents of a child from a strict muslim family present....the social worker, who could be said to have been smartly dressed, was wearing a very low cut top and her breasts were practically hanging out. Hardly appropriate in any work situation I would have thought, but downright offensive when sat with a strict muslim family (or any other client group who may have taken offense).
So the point I make is that it's not necessarily about "smartness" (god forbid that we should all end up dressing like our senior managers!) but about showing a degree of respect towards the feelings of our clients and fellow workers, and for the occasion. I've sat in meetings where I have really not wanted to see the acres of thigh that have been on display by the professional wearing the very short skirt before. Save 'sexy' dressing for nights out or whatever, not the workplace.
And no, I am not a prude, but there is a time and place for things.
All of these people spilling out of their dress or showing too much leg isn't - dare I say unfortunately? - something I often come across. There have been occasions when certain female individuals have been 'asked' to consider more 'approrpriate' attire but generally that's the end of it. As it happens, there was a recent memo sent out by senior managers 'reminding' staff that shorts or mini-skirts are not considered appropriate although I think this was trying to head-off the obvious hordes of half-naked social workers that characterise social care during the summer......
I'm certainly not a prude but I appreciate that there needs to be some standards so there will obviously be those occasions when an individual may need to be brought to task for consistently failing to dress appropriately, in which case, I would imagine the usual route of poor performance procedures would apply. I know that what people do (or don't) wear can raise many issues in relation to gender, culture, sexuality, etc. but I'm not aware of it being such a widespread problem that it requires anything more than a brief policy that emphasises common sense.
I didn't say it was a "widespread problem" Grinch. The majority of social workers do of course dress appropriately. But it does happen...maybe more in my service than in yours - sorry! ;o)
My god there are some dry, joyless people on this site.
Funny enough in the offices where i work it only seems to be the rounder, more middle aged women who take umbrage with the attire of others - shock horror, it is often the slimmer, more attractive women who are the target of these catty whipsers. Lets be blunt; if an unattractive, perhaps dowdy or overweight, person comes in wearing a low cut top nobody bats an eyelid, if you happen to be a pretty size 8 with double D boobs wearing a low cut top you're a strumpet set on debasing the entire profession with your minxy ways! Juvenile unsisterly crap.
How about we all just use a bit of common sense when getting dressed and worry about our own attire rather than casting sideways glances at other people.
So now we know, sexism, and ageism and discrimination against ‘rounder’ women are an acceptable part of the anti-oppressive and ant-discriminatory practice social work is so proud of. Well done thinkpink, have you got any mother in law jokes as well? Strictly for those of us without a sense of humour who are not a size 8 or pretty or without “boobs” you understand.
Hey im only speaking from experience, these experiences aren't imagined or exaggerated, its simply what ive seen in two offices where i have worked and once briefly when i was a student. And please understand i am not the image of a pretty size 8 boob person myself! In my last office i regarded us all as dressing pretty similar, leggings with tunic tops, jeans and a blouse, suit or a smart skirt for court, a pretty non diverse group of dressers spanning from our early 20s to the early 50s!! The only two women who ever attracted criticism of their dress (behind there backs no less!) were two women who just happended to fit the narrow representation of 'beauty' perpetuated by the media (perhaps this is the language i should have used in my first post). In reality these two women didn't dress any bloody different to anybody else in the office. I just find the whole debate petty and bitchy and unnecessary. If we all just keep an eye on our own dress then everything will be fine!!
Social work is typified by the sandal brigade in cut downs or shorts. An image, which without too much assumption is an analogy to the OU of the 70s. One is communicating their profession firstly by dress since this is the first image the service user/client has of the Local Government Officer.
This is nothing to do with competence but how one wants to be remember d by the client and how they portray themselves as representative of their employer. If one goes by the argument that when working with children one dresses casually, then as one gone overboard within the integration of their work environment? Should doctors wear jeans or shorts when working with children? Should nurses in the general hospital environment abandon their uniforms? On the basis of fitting in?
We are no longer with the GSCC but with HPC, thus most of their profession have a dress code. Do we argue for our independence and wear the hippie or Goth outfits? For the sake of our individuality?
Dressing appropriately suggests authority and representation. It is communicating our profession as being professional. Those who enter homes in trainers and Jeans in my opinion do no justice to social work. Might as well stick with sandals!
I wear what I feel comfortable in - which is usually jeans, t-shirt and sandals/ flat shoes.
I disagree with
kara nuts: This is nothing to do with competence but how one wants to be remember d by the client and how they portray themselves as representative of their employer. If one goes by the argument that when working with children one dresses casually, then as one gone overboard within the integration of their work environment? Should doctors wear jeans or shorts when working with children? Should nurses in the general hospital environment abandon their uniforms? On the basis of fitting in? Dressing appropriately suggests authority and representation. It is communicating our profession as being professional. Those who enter homes in trainers and Jeans in my opinion do no justice to social work. Might as well stick with sandals!
We should be remembered by service users for the relationship we have and the services provided, not the way we dress. When I think of teachers from my primary school years it's their personalities I recall not the way they dressed!
I don't feel the way we dress should be a means of displaying authority and would prefer to use communication skills to work with families. Formal wear such as suits have connotations of superiority.
I have followed this debate with amusement and fascination.There are obvious lines to draw on appropriate dress for work, but the fashion police should get off their high horses! I have a colleague who wears jeans, t-shirts and flip flops to work on a daily basis. On one occasion he cut his foot as he stood on glass and it went through the flip flop!(health and safety???) It is very much part of his character and all the young people love him. Let's not forget the most important thing is respect for service user and practice that is anti discriminatory/anti oppresive. At the end of the day, difference should be celebrated not marginalised.
sigh...
well I guess this is a very relevant post to myself for a change so I had better make my first proper post for a while.
I regularly wear 'short' skirts and dresses to work. Well above the knee at least, which I guess is short to many people. I wear the smarter elements of my wardrobe out of what I generally wear outside work, to work, . I'm not going to spend money on buying clothes I wouldn't wear otherwise.
If i'm not wearing a skirt/dress tights/leggings/jeggings combo I am in jeans or smart combats/ loose linen trousers. When I was a slightly younger I used to dress more smartly in the hope I would have more respect from older colleagues, other professions SUs etc etc who all commented on my young appearance. It didn’t work, and I find that dressing confidently and within my comfort zone means I am also more comfortable and confident in myself at work and therefore more comfortable and confident when doing my work.
It is possible to dress fashionably and comfortably without being scruffy, stuffy or OTT. I work with older people and my LA has a very relaxed dress code. I frequently get complimented by SUs on my clothes ( I have very colourful and unusual tastes!) and often this is a conversation starter rather than a barrier to me working with them.
We are not doctors, nurses, physios, OTs etc etc etc, we are social workers, we don’t have a 'uniform' that is not what social work has ever been about, and we shouldn’t have to pander to others for 'respect' as lets face it many of those in those professions are never going to respect us anyways. As long as we are doing our jobs properly and for the reason we should be then who gives a flying flock what we wear whilst we do. If other professions have a problem with it, its exactly that, their problem!
As a side note about teachers, I am aware from many of my teacher friends that they have similar debates about this issue, particularly in relation to younger/ NQT staff.
As a further side note, my first experience of social work was a female social worker turning up at a member of my family's door in the snow in a pair of black and multi-coloured glittery starred wellies, purple tights a black 'gypsy' skirt and a smart black jacket. She was so obviously just being who she normally was and wasn’t just yet another uniform or 'profession, she was a person with a name who we felt comfortable with very quickly. We trusted her to help us over everyone else we came into contact with during that time for that reason. That memory is something I have always tried to apply to my own work.
Thinkpink: "My god there are some dry, joyless people on this site. Funny enough in the offices where i work it only seems to be the rounder, more middle aged women who take umbrage with the attire of others - shock horror, it is often the slimmer, more attractive women who are the target of these catty whipsers. Lets be blunt; if an unattractive, perhaps dowdy or overweight, person comes in wearing a low cut top nobody bats an eyelid, if you happen to be a pretty size 8 with double D boobs wearing a low cut top you're a strumpet set on debasing the entire profession with your minxy ways! Juvenile unsisterly crap. How about we all just use a bit of common sense when getting dressed and worry about our own attire rather than casting sideways glances at other people."
Wow, MEEOOOW!! Calm down, Thinkpink....nobody said you had to wear a sack to work.
Personally speaking, I'm in my twenties and I like to dress fashionably, and I'm also quite fond of my cleavage, but I also have no desire to offend or dress inappropriately.
Just as an aside really but it does appear to me that within the social work profession there appear to be more people with individualistic dress senses than other professions. Or is it that because other professions have stricter dress codes that they don't have the chance to express themsleves through dress. Just musing really!
I personally deliberately choose NOT to dress in things that I describe as 'social workery clothes'!!!! By this I mean that that there are some things that do smack of being a social worker ...... shoes particualrly! When I was a student (God I love saying that) I used to say the code was sandal wearing, hennaed hair, tie dyed look!
I actually don't really give a monkeys what others wear all I want is to be comfortable in my clothes day to day and I am. Like my life outside work I have days where I fancy different styles.
Regarding the whole 'cleavage' discussion......for some of us who are more 'endowed' than others even without an iota of cleavage showing one cannot hide the fact of having a very curvaceous figure. I therefore try to dress appropriately at all times but soemtimes my body shape says it all without showing any flesh!!!! Unless I wore a sack cloth 10 sizes too big i can't help being the way I am and I can assure you I don't deliberatly draw attention to it.
I despise people who think clothes are to do with standards. Fashion has evolved with time. What would a "smart" person from regency times appear like in court today? Sould we all dress like Charlie or Queen. Royal enclosure stewards at Ascot think we should. Even some lesser racetracks bar people from certain areas if a tee shirt is worn. Do we want these sort of bigots telling us what to wear? Tony threw off his tie and set a trend, that even Dave and Nick have followed; suddenly it's OK. Evolved. Tis a fluid process and the world needs to move on to concentrate on the important things. We should not conform to the power people as some religions do to oppress women. Who can define "Smart".
We were all born naked and it's only a matter of opinion as to what is appropriate or not, to wear. Why should one dress to please others? After all you won't please everyone and it is discriminatory to chose who to offend the least.
If it's clean, comfortable, legal and maximises your confidence, wear it. Would love to be in a case conference with Adam Ant, Boy George and Gandhi. Perhaps we could get Black Rod to chair it.
When I see the likes of Blair, Milburn, Clegg and Cameron in their shirtsleeves and without a tie, I think of rich little boys dressing down to what they think projects them as being ordinary. I despise them for it. I find it strange that social workers believe they should dress to “express their personalities” at work. When I see a doctor, the last thing on my mind is their personality. I don’t want to know how trendy or “individual” they are. I just need to know they are competent. Personalities get in the way. Are we so bereft of ethics and knowledge that as social workers we can only “relate” to vulnerable people through our personality? No doubt as a prude and authoritarian practitioner I deserve Shirack “despising” the likes of me. Pity we need to scream who we are at work rather than doing our job. But hey as Tony and Nick and Dave would no doubt say we are who we are. Those wicked employer with their dress codes, they only pay us don’t they?