Hi all, hope you are well.
As a second year Social Work student who has recently completed, along with many other students, my 80 day practice placement. I wanted to open the debate and discuss something that is on my mind, having spoken to a number of other students. But firstly I have to say that on a personal level my personal experiences so far has been very very positive and I am pleased that my hosting authority has been professional and supportive during my professional development.
This discussion relates to Practice Teachers (P.T.), their 'Gatekeeping role' and their values base. Having spoken to a number of students it appears that there some practice teachers appear to be so overloaded with work/cases that they are having difficulties fulfilling their responsibilities for the professional development of students. I beleive that it is unfair on Service Users, Students and the P.T. As a result, I wonder if the role of a (P.T.) should become a dedicated role / job within Local Authorities. Perhaps this would free up the worker so they can dedicate their time as a professional mentor. They could also work closely with the team where the student is located. They might then also work more effectively between the academic world and the 'real world of social work', helping to bridge the gap between the two.
Another point I would like to discuss is whether P.T.'s should personally be able to make the decision to pass or fail a student, especially as they themselves, might not be an effective practitioner or a good leader/motivator or people person! Is there a danger of P.T.''s having too much power over a students future development and career? I find it strange that people/mentors within an industry such as Social Work can fail a person far too easily, especially when the ethos of Social Work practice should be about nurturing, advocacy and empowerment. Where are the values of these mentors?
I can't help thinking it strange that we as professionals will offer massive amounts of support, resources and 'unconditional positve regard' to individual service users, who might, as an example, be regarded a schedule 1 offender, but students are left to get on with it and failed at the first hurdle they might encounter...Hmmmm
Anyway, I was wondering if Practice Teachers should be regulated and challenged openly if they are deemed to be bringing personal values into the role of an assessor? Afterall passing practice placements is fundamental to passing the degree and gaining social worker status, if a student can be failed...why not the practice teacher?
Please respond with an appropriate level of confidentiality. Especially if you have experienced such issues.
Thanks (A second year student rep)
When you talk about PT's having too much of a power role to enable them to use personal values to fail a student - as a practice assessor of a number of years, can I suggest that you take some time to look at the criterias that 'allow' us to fail a student. I've attended many PT practice sessions, and the contstant theme is that it is much, much more difficult to fail a student than it is to pass one.
Having been responsible for a number of students, if I had been allowed to use my personal values, believe me I would have failed more than I had passed. However, difficult as a student may be - as long as the evidence they produce is to a sufficient standard, than I'm afraid we have to pass you!
As to your suggestion that PT's only do this as a dedicated role - what do you suggest we do for the months when students are not on placement. There is a need for PT's to be up to date with current practice and in a position to identify appropriate work for students to deal with. The option is already out there in the form of Independent Practice Assessors - the majority of the ones I know personally have retired from practitioning.
Whilst I may be a bit critical of your suggestions - I do sympathise with the fact that some PT's are not motivated/overworked etc. I would agree that there needs to be a monitoring of PT's practice as for most of us, we pass the course and then are left to get on with it.
Hi Millie, thanks for taking the time replying to this thread.
It is really good to get a balance view from someone with your experience in practice teaching. Like you say in your response, you have attended many P.T. practice sessions and you acknowledge that there is a common theme amongst P.T. groups informing us that it is much more difficult to "fail a student than it is to pass one". I appologise if I have taken this out of context, however, I just think it's sad that the common theme relates to 'failure' and not ways in which P.T's can further use their skills and experience to support more students to pass, (obviously not for major issues). However, I am sure that the latter fact and the positives must be a part of the agenda during your meetings? for it would be worrying if everyone who attended was crafting new ideas and schemes to fail students..lol.
I have to appologise for not having read the criteria for failing a student and I do appreciate it might help inform and support the debate a little, however, are you saying that P.T.'s do not have enough power to fail students?
There is no doubt in my mind and experience that P.T's have a massive responsibility for gatekeeping and development, and as students, the responsibility is also in our hands to work hard, learn and fulfil the requirements in order to pass the placement. But, as a student rep, I can not change the experiences of students who report such bad practice, afterall, it is their subjective experiences. As student service users we are at the mercy of 'good and bad' Practice Teachers, afterall, for those like myself who have little experience in the social work sector, these relationships can be the make or break of students careers.
I do think it is important to be open and honest during debates and I respect you for this, however, when reading the following from your reply, I never thought I would hear myself saying this: "I am thankful for the complicated process and levels of accountability in developing students". As you say, if it was up to you, you would have failed more than you have passed? Have I mis uderstood this mindset? I would imagine that there are many reasons which have informed your statement, but what if the student has pottential, is liked by S/U's and other team members etc but does not get on with the P.T? Which is one of the reasons which led me to write the original thread.
millie2607: Having been responsible for a number of students, if I had been allowed to use my personal values, believe me I would have failed more than I had passed. However, difficult as a student may be - as long as the evidence they produce is to a sufficient standard, than I'm afraid we have to pass you!
I am not making the following statement towards you, please don't think I am, but imagine if all P.T.'s used the above line of thought without having to be transparent and accountable, social work would perhaps, be void of students. Equally more worrying what if they were wrong in their decisions or if such decisions were made because they did not like their student and perhaps failure was not based on ability but by other motives.
I appreciate there would be difficulties regarding the creation of dedicated P.T. roles, perhaps the answer to this could be found in a more effective management strategy, whereby service managers and team managers ensure P.T.'s are free of a significant caseloads in order to effectively develop student practitioners. Here lies the catch 22, without more staff and ever increasing demand for services, the role of P.T.'s is likely to get more problematic. I personally do have an understanding of the pressures experienced by P.T's and in a similar manner that you report you are "left to get on with it" so are many students during placement and this is not right. Are we not all of the same, ultimate agenda?
Thanks for replying and contributing :-) but I and many students are of the opinion that P.T.'s should be accountable and present at appeals panel if a student is failed. I beleive this would afford students a level of protection and help to address and reduce issues of bullying and power imbalances which students might experience.
Kind regards,
Cheers Chris
Hi
I am a practice assessor and it's a part of my job that I really enjoy, however I would not enjoy doing practice teaching/assessing without being able to continue with my social work role. The previous poster made a valid point about the importance of continuing in your own practice in order to keep up to date with what you are teaching. Things change so quickly that even if you are only out of practice for a year or so you can miss some major changes in policies and procedures and how this is dealt with in local authorities etc. That being said I am always very conscious of trying to balance my caseload and the time I spend with my student to ensure that the student feels that they are well supported and so do my clients. I think the ideal answer would be to work with a lower caseload, whilst you have a student but this is easier said that done. It is something which you, as the practice assessor needs to enforce with your manager.
One of the major issues in the area where I work is the report writing for the students. It is a huge amount of extra work in addition to everything else and I generally end up doing all mine at home, in my own time. However, I suspect if all practice teachers/assessors asked for a lower caseload and extra time off to write up reports the managers of the teams would just say that we were unable to take students. In addition to this because of the massive role of computers and administration in social work these days, students need to have access to their own computer at work and have a desk, which again is not always very easy to arrange.
Before I was a social worker, I worked as a nurse and I took students then as well. However, the difference between social services and the NHS (as they did it then anyway) was that in the NHS we were told that we were taking students twice yearly and it was something that was part of our everyday job. There was no choice in the matter. However, on saying that, the report writing was just a page or two and the students were counted as part of the workforce, which I do not think is really appropriate.
I think you may have misinterpreted my inference (the quote you highlighted about failing students). Whilst this may have appeared a little "sharp", my comment was linked to the problem that is highlighted in a seperate thread regarding a minority of students that come on placement with no interest in the area they are on placement and make their intentions very clear, and also present with a very negative attitude (see 'practice assessing' thread).
What I was trying to get at was that I and many other of my PA colleagues have found it extremely difficult to build up good working relationships with students who present with the above attitudes. We always do our utmost to ensure students get the best out of placement, but to be honest some students are only interested in doing the minimum possible in order to get through placement. In these circumstances it would be easy to let personal values get in the way of decisions about passing/failing students. I was trying to give a view/reassurance that there are safeguards in place to ensure this does not happen to you and your other student colleagues, clearly I failed miserably!!
If you or your colleagues ever experience difficulties on placement and feel that PA's are putting personal values over fact when making decisions, then you have a route to follow with your individual university to make a complaint regarding your individual PA's practices.