My goodness, another scary night in London. Absolutely terrifying watching gangs of hooded youngsters head off to loot my local high street. This was the end of my road last night. Total maddness.
http://youtu.be/DAzhZ4VPd9k
Ruth Smith Editor at Community Care
Twitter: @ComCareRuth
Email: ruth.smith@rbi.co.uk
Well Ruth...sorry to hear your distress regarding the riots in London....but it's been a long time in the making. Some of us have been reading the signs for many years.....the creation of an underclass..young people with no hope for their futures...the growth of gang culture with accompanying violence.....young people discarded by the education system...and then have their faces rubbed in faeces by politicians, business and the elite classes. I'm surprised it has taken so long.
I remember this quote which was burned into my consciousness in 1973, by one of the most brilliant, visionary and prescient educationalists of the 20th century...his name is now largely forgotten but for me Sir Alec Clegg, formerly Chief Education Officer of the West Riding of Yorkshire in the 60's and 70's wrote and warned us all of the potential consequences if we did nothing to address the collateral damage done to some of our children by a selfish and greedy society , told to get on their bikes....told that wealth, success and celebrity can be theirs if they can kick a round object across a field....or prostitute themselves on vile TV programmes.... told there is no such thing as society and then abandoned to feral existence with no sense of incongruity by society...only the endless blame and condemnation of politicians.
" Unfortunately, the problems of the youngster who is becoming more and more conspicuous by his rejection are not yet seen as ones of urgency and may go unheeded. The detioration is gradual and we may become innured to it as we have to the ever increasing death on our roads.
I think it is more sophisticated than that.
The debate about a philosphy underpinning Social Work elsewhere in these forums points in that direction.
Basically the new social capitalism is that philosophy. Everyone has been rendered down to an economic unit, and efficiency vs cost are its performance indices.
People requiring social work or health interventions are re-defined as "service users" and "stakeholders" ...economic terms! The income they generate as a government target for funding, a statistic, or a measuable throughput is balanced against the efficiency with which we can do the minimum required to meet the financial imperative/standards for involvement.
Even professional associations can become driven by the economic "bottom line" for their own organisation, and the values and principle they exist to protect are subordinated!
Child care scandals are expensive, both financially and in terms of damage to organisational and directoral reputation therefore they must be avoided.Similar "costs" are incurred by neglecting the aged, and the non-able bodied.
If any social group, such as the youth that are currently rioting and looting, can be efficiently ignored i.e. there is little cost incurred by their disafilliation...then they will be left to the paucity of existence that they inhabit.
However, when right and wrong is defined by economic gain or loss, ( if I steal will I get caught, and if I do how much will that cost me in fines or jail time; versus the value of what I can loot or steal, and all weighed against a life on basic benefits or minimal wage) then who can be surprised? We have been allowed to promote no value-base other than social capitalism for the last two decades, simply because it appears to be the only one which can pretend to be "inclusive"
Given a wonderful electronic social communications system, that allows a whole local generation to instantly agree together to raid a high street en masse,.. given the empowerment that you could see on the faces of some of the lads involved...(they can't stop us or catch us...we rule!!) given the simplicity of the arithmetic in the personal short-term pros and cons column of these actions, it is all understandable.
All it needed was the totally unrelated catalyst of a shooting in Tottenham to demostrate the process and economic effects, and the phenomenon grows and spreads.
The solution, in economic terms, is that now that there is a bigger cost to ignoring this particular social group, and economic forces will re-calibrate to manage these new specifications....once the current wave of anarchy can be quelled.
I suspect that the specifications for reducing the costs of policing will be redefined too, but which will be the prefered reaction?
At a time when confidence in the financial markets is plummeting like a stone, it would be tempting to make apocalyptic comparisons with the fall of the roman empire.
Once the free "bread and circuses" were no longer affordable and the values and ideals on which the empire were built became blurred, spontaneous uprising and rebellions escalated, and the world crumbled into what became known as the dark ages for about 500 years.
But of course thats not happening to us............is it?
Couldn't agree more with your analysis Silversage.
Far too many young people feel that there is nothing in 'society' for them...no job, (or at least one with a living wage), no future, no role for them at all. They see themselves vilified and disregarded in the press. They see lives measured by how much stuff people have, value bases that privelege rampant consumerism and people's vaue as a human based on how much money or stuff one has. This has been going on for years, under both Labour and Tory governments, but the recession and cuts has rammed it home with a vengeance. The riots and looting are no surprise, sadly.
The only real way back from this is an honest look by the powers that be as to how and why these riots happened, but I'm not holding my breath. Far easier just to brand them all mindless thugs and shove any wider issues under the carpet.
Natural consequence of a polarised society. Doesn't happen in Norway. Distribution of wealth.
It is hypocrisy not to use water cannon, snatch squads, rubber bullets etc.
I think the Norwegians are still puzzling over the causes of their own recent massacre, given ...or despite... distribution of wealth....yes I know the perpetrator has been described as " a madman" but there do appear to be a significant number of people in Europe and UK suffering the same collective delusions.....though not yet acting out their "final solutions"
Even his demonisation of Islam can ( with a bit of a stretch) be framed and explained by the Social Capitalism theory. Are we western " economic units" threatened by the movement of people who put relegious or politico-relegious values above the personal material aquisitiveness which ostensibly underpins and is supposed to secure our society's compliance and cohesion?
My street was destroyed. I can't even start to explain what we saw and felt or how I feel now. The fear, the sheer terror. I've never been as scared for my life as I was.
This sort of stuff causes conflict between feelings and training.
I see the kids and think little bast**ds then I see Theresa May and think big bast**rd.
So glad I did not have first hand experience like cb. Hope it has not done lasting damage to your perspective.
Shirack: So glad I did not have first hand experience like cb. Hope it has not done lasting damage to your perspective.
I'm still a woolly leftie who doesn't want to see civil rights eroded or troops on the streets if that's what you mean. But I am desperately sad. And angry. And then sad some more.
There have always been the 'haves' and the 'havenots' - so I don't buy into some of the disenfranchised / alienated youth arguments.
We also used to have wars - thank goodness there is no longer the carnage from such as the 2 World Wars but sociologically, of course, they had massive impacts on 'employment' for young people and post-war reconstruction employment.
My own view is that we have to look primarily at the parents - what makes for decent law-abiding, decent young people (as the majority are) and the others? - it was sad to also see some older people engaged in such criminality - they ought to know better.
A complex issue to adequately analyse with no single cause but, sadly, a reflection on an increasingly fragmented 'society.'
The Education Maintenance Allowance needs to be restored plus good Connexions and Youth Services.
CB I'm so sorry you've had an awful time I hope this has peaked. Take care pet
I have family in South London and it's worrying if it's going to spread. I believe it's politically organised, it but that many of the participants have no idea of, or affiliation to, Duggan.
Two people have died
Ridiculous 'mozza' - "politically organised"!!! - what planet are you from?
cb, glad you got out safely, that's all.
Some of the rioters are just scum
watch london riots bleeding boy robbed.html
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Funny thing really that everyone is saying it’s the working class and people with no jobs. According to the news the people who appeared in court yesterday are from a variety of backgrounds including graduates and professionals.
Unemployed Social Worker: Some of the rioters are just scum watch london riots bleeding boy robbed.html
I despair at the woolly thinking of many social workers. This is a serious problem and recent events could hopefully lead to a sea change in attitudes. For fifteen years or more we have had a growing army of feral teenagers on the streets of Britain causing arson and other criminal damage.
Something has gone seriously wrong with parenting in Britain here
I wrote this article about two years ago The Challenge of Youth Violence and would welcome any comments.
I doubt that all young people out on the streets would have gone to further education and they are doing this because EMA was stopped, although I do agree that of all cuts, the end of EMA was one of the most stupid decisions made yet. I think that this society struggles to teach children and young people about consequences and taking responsibility in a constructive manner. Many in the adult generation have been brought up with smacking and don't know how to manage their children's behaviour in other ways, a lot are resistant anyway to learn alternative ways of promoting discipline and in the end they just give up and let their kids do whatever they want. Schools aren't much better at this either, their solution is to kick kids out when they beconme challenging or restrin them and escalate the conflict. On the other hand the kids pick up early about their rights, many know adults can't touch them but feel powerful by hitting other adults. Add to that low expectations of the poor kids, a welfare state in which housing is more easily available to teenage mothers than hard working indviduals and kids being criminalized like adults with disastrous consequences for their future and there you are...
RP, teenage mothers are hard working individuals- the distinction being that it is unpaid work.
Owl - "recent events could hopefully lead to a sea change in attitudes."
What kind of attitudes would you prefer to see adopted?
I tried to look at your bog but the filters at work blocked it as being 'adult and pornographic material!'
Good question and requires an answer
Same one as you Rupert I believe
I believe there's far more to this than we appreciate at this time, other sites have named adult activists I'm not going to do that, but I just don't accept these kids weren't encouraged to act as they did, and by people with a political axe to grind.
Cui bono ,
Emma
Here's the article for you
The murder of Garry Newlove caused public outrage but the problem of youth violence continues unchallenged. At the heart of the problem is the failure of government to accept responsibility for controlling the small minority of dangerous and out of control adolescents who cause mayhem in urban areas across Britain. Ordinary citizens should not be expected to confront violent youths but government inaction makes it inevitable that some will try. This is the key issue. Government must be made to take responsibility for controlling these youths and protecting its citizens.
Full article here
All these shops boarded up across the land, many never to open again, highstreets laid waste, businesses no longer running. The lives of so many decimated by so few. Disaffected young people and families losing their homes and aspriations. The rampant greed of so few and psychotic desire for consumer goods. The lack of laws and government will to protect the people from these minority of vandals. All this because of a few rioters bankers.
nice one JoSopine
Context is everything JoSophine
redana: RP, teenage mothers are hard working individuals- the distinction being that it is unpaid work.
well, not the one in owl's article apparently... I don't dispute that many single mothers of all ages do a fantastic job, non-paid as you have pointed. However there are many others that see it as a lifestyle choice, a ticket to independence and a flat of their own. They have no intention of working (I have been involved with such women so I know for a fact that it is true) and they keep having children with random partners, knowing full well this will maintain their entitlement to Income Support. Quite a few live in dirty houses that they cannot be bothered to clean and regardless how much "support" is offered by the services, they do not really want to change. I saw this being replicated then by their own daughters and to be honest I have been horrified in the past few weeks at the increasing amount of adults that seem to see their children as "disposable" and when they get fed up with them, they will just pass them over to the state who has been providing for them all these years.
RP: redana: RP, teenage mothers are hard working individuals- the distinction being that it is unpaid work. well, not the one in owl's article apparently... I don't dispute that many single mothers of all ages do a fantastic job, non-paid as you have pointed. However there are many others that see it as a lifestyle choice, a ticket to independence and a flat of their own. They have no intention of working (I have been involved with such women so I know for a fact that it is true) and they keep having children with random partners, knowing full well this will maintain their entitlement to Income Support. Quite a few live in dirty houses that they cannot be bothered to clean and regardless how much "support" is offered by the services, they do not really want to change. I saw this being replicated then by their own daughters and to be honest I have been horrified in the past few weeks at the increasing amount of adults that seem to see their children as "disposable" and when they get fed up with them, they will just pass them over to the state who has been providing for them all these years.
RP, to prevent anarchy do you think the unworthy and poor should be sterilised?
JoSoPhine: RP, to prevent anarchy do you think the unworthy and poor should be sterilised?
No, but they should also take responsibility for their choices. When they make a choice and somebody else has to take the consequences this is wrong. I think it is hypocritical on the one hand to encourage and subsidize a lifestyle like the one in the article, but on the other hand to expect that Social Workers promote change in the said lifestyle. My colleagues and I frequently feel we are hamsters running on a wheel with some of our families. 3, 4, 5 generations of people that have never worked and have no intention to change, stigmatized by the society but at the same time told it's their human right to live this lifestyle if they choose to. and if it goes pear shaped it is never their responsibility, it always is the responsibility of some agency, usually "the social"
R.P. I take your point about inter-generational cycles. But what you are describing, as I see it, is not a lifestyle choice, necessarily, so much as a lifestyle inhabited by those with fewer choices.
http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting?cat=commentisfree&type=article
The next few months will be fraught for some politicians.
Trying 'the cuts did it' routine or youths don't have enough jobs is likely to lead to some falling into a huge trap.
Hate to reference a Daily Mail site, but this from October 2010;
Nearly nine out of ten jobs created under Labour went to foreign-born workers, astonishing figures revealed last night.
Official statistics showed the vast majority of the rise in the employment total under the last Government was accounted for by workers born abroad.
Total numbers of those in work went up by two million during 13 years of Labour. But of those jobs, 1.8 million individuals were classed as ‘non-UK born’.
Just a quarter of a million declared themselves to be born in the UK.
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1325013/Migrants-took-9-10-jobs-created-Labour.html)
And I can see the trap being laid at this very moment, even The Guardian is falling into it with columnists sobbing about the poor looters who in an effort to seek social justice thought it best to try and find a way to get 32' tellys in every room of the house including the toilet.
Michael Gove vs. Harriett Harman on Newsnight was a good example; he nearly used the statistics but I suspect the Coalition members are under instructions to hold off for the moment and use the stats at a time-of-their-choosing.
Say the next Election Hustings.
Emm: Owl - "recent events could hopefully lead to a sea change in attitudes." What kind of attitudes would you prefer to see adopted?
I've found (from personal experience) that people living in communities blighted by crime and anti-social behaviour were ignored by middle class liberals and were resigned to the fact that nothing could be done about their problems. It now seems that politicians are listening to them - this is what I mean by a sea change. Cameron says 'the fightback is underway' and seems to be in touch with public opinion now. He is encouraging the police to take a more robust approach and saying that offenders will be sent to prison. In the past the police were given conflicting messages - now they have a clearer message that it is their job to protect civilised society from the criminal element. Of course, there are still many wet liberals who are afraid to be judgemental and do not understand that reclaiming the streets from gangs etc. is going to be a huge challenge. One example of this is the BBC who insisted initially on describing the arsonists and looters as 'protesters' and seemed to be minimising the seriousness of problems that are actually rooted in society.
Which begs the question....do gangsters do more damage to society than banksters??....any answers
Daily Mail, Guardian, It's all about interpretation. Could they just be modern day Robin Hoods?
Probably not Shirack....but the well informed gangster could always study for a MBA...like Stringer Bell in The Wire....they all piss in the same pot.....business and business opportunities
Owl - right; thanks for the clarification.
Probably not Shirack.....but the well informed gangster can always study for a MBA...like Stringer Bell in The Wire.....they all piss in the same pot....business and business opportunities
We've heard the riots are preventing approved mental health professionals from carrying out assessments of people under the Mental Health Act because they cannot access the police for a warrant (and support with any associated risks). Here's the story.
Just read this on the BBC Website - unbelievable!
''As London's courts deal with hundreds of cases arising from the riots, a graduate who hoped to become a social worker has admitted she stole a TV. Natasha Reid, 24, from Rosemary Avenue, Edmonton, north London, pleaded guilty at City of Westminster Magistrates' Court to theft and entering with intent to steal. Reid noticed a Comet store in Enfield had been broken into and took a £300 television. Her case was adjourned for sentencing until September 1. Almost 100 people appeared at Westminster overnight, with prosecutors working 5pm to 9am shifts.''