The College of Social Work has announced its initial fees for members are likely to be £270 a year, with an additional £50 cost for joint membership with Unison - see our story for more details.
However, no joint deal is currently available with the British Association of Social Workers, although negotiations are ongoing. Currently BASW membership fees are £220 for practitioners with five or more years' experience, or £156 for those with less than five years' experice.
Would you consider joining both Unison and the College, or would BASW members consider joining the College as well - or perhaps drop out of BASW and simply join the College?
It is not a question of money but what services each offer or could end up duplicating, though these comments are food for thought:
The College and UNISON will remain separate and independent organisations, and will hold separate datebases of members. http://www.unison.org.uk/asppresspack/pressrelease_view.asp?id=2078
‘Finally, as a social worker led organisation it is important that we communicate first and foremost with our members, something we shall do as and when we have information to share.’http://www.basw.co.uk/news/basws-statement-on-college-of-social-work-developments/
College Unison Press Release:http://www.collegeofsocialwork.org/files/College%20Unison%20press%20release%20final.pdfIs The College going to be a trade union?If The College contracts with UNISON, will this mean it is not independent?What about the trade union political fund?What about social workers who are members of other trade unions?If The College contracts with UNISON, where does this leave working with BASW?More:http://www.collegeofsocialwork.org/faq.asp
You ask some relevant questions.
How can the college and Unison be independent of each other when the college will be dependent on Unison for initial funding? Would the college be able to disagree with Unison? I guess not. Details of this deal have not been made available but I would be interested to know how much money Unison is providing to the college. Separate data bases do not necessarily mean independent. So in my view, on two counts the colleges’ independence is questionable, funding from Unison, which includes the political fund; and of course funding from the government.
How can the college profess to be ‘social workers led’ when such an important decision/agreement with Unison has been done without recourse to social workers? They could have put out a survey on their wed site, or undertook some consultation visits. This Unison agreement is a fundamental one which did not have to be agreed now! What was driving this? I suspect finance and a promise of Unison membership. If the college was going to be social worker led, (as BASW is) then such a decision could have been put to its first AGM.
Continuing on from your questions; I think we can safely say that the Unison deal means that the college will not be a trade union?
I do agree with you that this totally sidelines social workers who are not only members of other trade unions but also who choose to not be a member of any union. Why should it be more expensive for non- unison members? This does seem ethically wrong and not what I would expect from a body who will be the college and voice of social work.
I am concerned that the college on reading appears to be BASW, if you take a look at what the college will provide and what BASW provides to members, they are in the main the same. BASW’s view has always been, why establish BASW in another guise; give the college statuary status and extend its powers over and above that of BASW. I am afraid that the open and blatant willingness of self serving others to simply replicate another organisation, with public and Unison funding is astonishing.
I would urge social workers to demand a college that isblog truly independent and only speaks for social workers and social work following consultation with those it purports to represent.
Daniel, why is my comments not posted on the front page under lastest blogs?
Hi
Only blog posts will appear in the blogs feed. As your comment was on a forum thread it would have appeared on the forum comments feed but would have been pushed down the list as soon as a more recent comment was posted. It's all automatic and based on RSS feeds.
Hope that helps
There is an existing and relevant thread - it helps if new ones are not started as contributions can either be duplicated - or missed.
http://www.communitycare.co.uk/carespace/forums/college-of-social-work-would-you-pay-more-than-8958.aspx
Rupert M: There is an existing and relevant thread - it helps if new ones are not started as contributions can either be duplicated - or missed. http://www.communitycare.co.uk/carespace/forums/college-of-social-work-would-you-pay-more-than-8958.aspx
Yes, and both threads got started by a staff member of CommunityCare.co.uk - so by definition the agenda is set/framed by CommunityCare.co.uk!
Baswsupport raises some interesting questions. I would add others. Will membership of the college only apply to social workers woring in England and will part time and retired social workers be expected to pay £270? What will become of BASW's well respected Advisory and representative service?
To be honest as a social worker that chooses tro work in mental health, I have always found basw to essentiaslly ignore the issues that affect me.
I expect the new college to do the same.
Hi all,
In response to your comments on this forum, we have now updated our FAQs page on The College website. We hope that we have answered all of your questions and will continue to update our FAQs page accordingly.
If you have any more questions, please contact us directly at collegeinfo@scie.org.uk and we’ll do our best to get back to you as soon as possible.
Thanks very much.
The College Development Team
In order to achieve an effective and sustainable College of Social Work by March 2012 BASW will: 1. Undertake a programme of joint planning and due diligence with the aim of presenting an option for full merger with the College of Social Work to BASW AGM May 2011.+ + +http://www.basw.co.uk/campaigns/college/basw-council-resolution-on-college/
Unlike, as I understand it, the various medical Royal Colleges, RCN etc. the College of Social Work will have the majority of its potential members represented Trades Union-wise by UNISON which in itself consists of only a minority of social workers.
Also, if the BASW merger / assimilation does not occur there would seem little point in social workers belonging to both Organisations.
More haste - less speed would have been useful. The potential College is making plans for its 'baby' to go to University before it is even born!!!
Is the desperation more to do with the current parlous state of social work more than being developed on far firmer foundations of what is social work and what does it best need to promote itself, protect itself and withstand challenges from politicians, economists, senior managers etc?
I feel that a 'head of steam' is building up which is just as likely to see the proposed College 'explode before even hitting the rails, de-rail itself or flounder because of lack of paying 'passengers.'
Where is its Business Plan?
I have to say I'm looking at my direct debits for BASW and Unison coming out of my bank account and in light of the mumblings for the college, I am wondering why I am still paying for BASW when it seems that its functions will be wholly taken over by the College.
I wish some of the discussions and information had been more transparent. At the moment though, I'm resigned to it but I am hovering over the 'cancel direct debit' button in the meantime, I have to say.
Tend to agree. In my experience Unison has a poor understanding of the Profession and how to represent staff faced with action from employers over social work matters.
Those with a long memory may recall how vehemently opposed to the establishment of a regulatory body for social work Unison/Nalgo was.
BASW has over 13K members. That means 73K social workers can't be wrong.
gloworm: Tend to agree. In my experience Unison has a poor understanding of the Profession and how to represent staff faced with action from employers over social work matters. Those with a long memory may recall how vehemently opposed to the establishment of a regulatory body for social work Unison/Nalgo was.
cb: I have to say I'm looking at my direct debits for BASW and Unison coming out of my bank account and in light of the mumblings for the college, I am wondering why I am still paying for BASW when it seems that its functions will be wholly taken over by the College.
I cancelled my BASW supscription a few weeks ago for that very reason!
MrsM: cb: I have to say I'm looking at my direct debits for BASW and Unison coming out of my bank account and in light of the mumblings for the college, I am wondering why I am still paying for BASW when it seems that its functions will be wholly taken over by the College. I cancelled my BASW supscription a few weeks ago for that very reason!
So therefore a key distinction would be whether Unison can currently offer an equivalent of the BASW advice and representation service? If Unison does and can, then what else does BASW offer members that Unison does not?Findings from the social worker consultation events"Provide employment and professional advice Participants welcomed the idea of a professional advice service that could be accessed by members of The College, but felt that employment advice should come directly from trade unions.By far the majority view at all events was the wish for a single membership fee, whichoffers both College and union membership. Some participants favoured a union opt outclause.The majority of attendees said they would not pay two membership fees and for thisreason, support was expressed for the idea of a convergence with BASW.
Many people said they would be happy to pay a membership fee for approximately thesame amount as is already charged for UNISON and BASW membership, provided thataccess to and benefits of both services were readily available."http://www.collegeofsocialwork.org/files/consultationevents_toplinefindings.pdf
That is exactly the point, what is the point of creating an organisation alike BASW? There must be something ethically wrong about that. I thought the whole reason for creating a college was that the profession wanted something new and better. That is certainly not what they are planning. I am staying with an organisation with 40 years of experience, which has already made some of the mistakes which the college is bound to make. Why not stick with BASW and help to improve and widen the brief and it’s power? In fact the college (that does not even exist yet) ought to merge with BASW! Not the other way around.
Let’s please remember that it was BASW that first stated that the profession needed a college! One that had statutory powers, and would take on functions which BASW through its 40 years experience knows the profession needs. That’s what BASW submitted to the social work task force and has continued to state even to this day. Yet those who have only just begun to jointly work at these issues continue to ignore the only professional association. Lets get together behind BASW and show those who say they speak for social workers that we don’t want another BASW. Don’t get me wrong, BASW are doing a great job! The A&R Service is a unique service; the BASW Journal is I believe 15th in the world. If we going to develop a college then it should be better than what we already have!
Making a decision to get into an agreement with Unison without first seeking social workers is one of many mistakes that the college will make. From reading the website it seems to be primarily about gaining Unisons alleged 40.000 members. The truth is, Unison do not know how many social workers are members; has anyone seen the data or statistics?
Did the college have to sign an exclusivity deal with Unison? Again this would be ethically wrong!
Many unison members actually revert to BASW when they want representation because they provide better representation of social workers. They also have an advice line! If I were you I would rejoin BASW, you may need quality representation before April in any event.
How many pepole in toatl attended the consultation? as it more than the 13.000 plus members in BASW? Regarding the opt out clause; how would those members be represented?
"BASW appears to be trying to subvert the agenda away from building one college..."http://www.collegeofsocialwork.org/mediareleases/30032010.aspWell I never
Please answer all the questions raised in the response, my questions are in red.
What will the membership benefits of The College be?
Social workers who decide to become members of The College will have access to a range of benefits including:
· a magazine Already provided by BASW
· a peer reviewed journal Already provided by BASW
· professional indemnity insurance and public liability insurance Already provided by BASW
· Representation and employment advice via UNISON BASW has had Advice and Representation Service which is a unique service, 100% staffed by registered social workers. (Social workers representing social workers)
· practical guidance and advice via a professional advice service for individual members and via an extensive Q&A section on The College website Already provided by BASW through the advice and representation service
· tools and resources to use in practice Already provided by BASW
· attendance at annual conferences Already provided by BASW
· an online library, with access to up to date information and research
· awards for study Already provided by BASW
· access to communities of interest, special interest groups and forums (online and potentially face to face) Already provided by BASW
· the provision of a directory of endorsed training providers and facilitation of the development of individual portfolios to demonstrate that continuing professional development (CPD) requirements have been met. Already provided by BASW
The question is why develop something that already exists? and why should we believe that the college will do anything different? BASW by def, has staying power and is learning from mistakes of the past. It is now a bigger, better and wiser organisation.
What will it cost to join The College?
The Interim Board will confirm the membership costs and eligibility criteria in January 2011. The working assumption is that membership will cost £270 a year (gross of any tax relief) for the range of benefits to be provided.
Social workers who are UNISON members will be asked to make a payment of around £50 (net of tax relief) in addition to their UNISON membership fee. This will make them eligible for all College membership benefits. Why should unison members pay less than none-union members? This is ethically wrong.
I don't like trade unions. Can I join The College and opt out of being part of UNISON?
Yes, you can opt out of UNISON membership, but there will not be a saving in cost to you. When you join The College you can decide to opt out of UNISON membership; In this case, we will not pass on your details. If at any time you decide you would like to take advantage of this membership benefit, you will simply need to let us know and we will pass on your information to UNISON. How will these members be represented?
Will college members have to sign a code of ethics?
Yes. The College Interim Board is currently considering eligibility for membership. A decision is expected to be made by the end of January 2011. This decision will consider which code of ethics should be signed by College members, and also to consider what will happen if a College member should fail to adhere to this code. Already provided by BASW, and additionally this is recognised internationally. Why recreate this?
Why is The College including a trade union function?
The outcome of the consultation carried out by the College was that trade union representation was highly valued by social workers. The College looked at a wide variety of ways that this could be provided, including the models used by other Colleges. The College has undertaken an extensive evaluation and decided that trade union representation for its future members, could best be secured through an agreement with UNISON. This will provide those who do not wish to become UNISON members the option to opt out of its union services.
The agreement in principle with UNISON frees The College to develop its work on professional standards and other functions and services that the profession indicated it needed and wanted during the consultation process.
The agreement will also allow The College to present a good offer in terms of membership costs to its future members whilst securing the long term viability of The College. Who are the college referd to here? All those including the newly formed board are interim provisions. This BIG discussion ought to have been brought to the college’s first AGM. Does the college have a written constitution? How then can it form agreements with Unison? Did the board even decide and democratically vote for the Unison deal? Apart from the joint membership cost, what is the college’s reluctance to make visible to all the details of the deal?
Why didn't The College converge with BASW at the same time as reaching an agreement with UNISON?
BASW is an independent organisation, and as such makes its own decisions about what to do and when to do it. The College invited BASW to make a presentation to the Interim Board on 19 November about its proposals for convergence.
The Interim Board will set up a negotiation process to reach agreement about key issues involving BASW. The College remains committed to pursuing this agenda and working together with BASW. This does not answer the question. What will happen to the Advice and Representation (A&R) service? Since Unison will be providing the union function? It is well acknowledged (and Unison are aware of this fact) that one of the primary reasons social workers join BASW is for access to the A&R service. Many BASW members who are also Unison members revert to the A&R service when they require representation. Why wouldn’t the college what to merge and build on this?
Why didn't The College agree its vision, mission and business model before reaching an agreement with UNISON?
We did. The consultation process showed huge support for the draft vision and purpose and functions document, which was published by the Development Group. This document has now been updated, incorporating the feedback from our consultation exercise, but the core values remain the same.
The Interim Board has agreed the vision, mission and purpose for The College, and the business model. The vision, mission and purpose document was presented to the Interim Board on 19 November; however this document needed drafting changes in order to be a useful public document for the College. It will be published in early January.
The Business model for the College is commercially sensitive and therefore not public.
Who was it agreed with? Again where is the constitution? this is the foundation on which everything else should be built..
If The College contracts with UNISON, will this mean it is not independent?
No. The College and UNISON will be separate bodies, able to speak out independently, and each with their own membership databases. This does not mean true independence. If there is any dependency on Unison for either members or fianances, then by definition, it is not independent. Let’s call a spade a spade! Unison will be a force to be reckoned with should the college dare to speak out against something it is supporting. Is it true that the college staff will be based in the unison’s building?
In contrast; BASW is completely independent and does not depend on any other organisation for financial support etc.
What about social workers who are members of other trade unions?
The sub contracting arrangement with UNISON will not prevent social workers from joining or being members of other trade unions. The College will work with UNISON to explore whether partnership arrangements are possible for members of other trade unions who also want to join The College. It is concerning that a public announcement has been made regarding an agreement in principal, yet the college has not already discussed/explored, whether other partnerships are possible! Surely this should have formed a part of the agreement! Furthermore, and of more concern would be if the college has entered into an exclusivity agreement with Unison, then this would mean that the answer provide here is misleading. Please answer this question, is an exclusivity clause included in the agreement with Unison?
If The College contracts with UNISON, where does this leave working with BASW?
The College Interim Board is keen to continue negotiations with BASW that would allow convergence in due course. A lot of detail is still to be decided. However, the Interim Board is clear that The College wishes to work collaboratively with all existing social work membership bodies. Is that why the college has duplicated the functions of BASW? Is this ethically sound both in terms of business and social work terms?
I am already a member of BASW. Why would I consider joining The College?
BASW is a professional association, rather than a College representing and supporting the profession, and BASW has called for the creation of a UK College of Social Work so recognises that it is different from belonging to BASW.
The College is being created with the full engagement of BASW.
Discussions about the role of BASW once The College is established are underway.
See previous statements above. For the record, The British Association of Social Workers is a voice for both the profession as well as social workers. This distinction is both incorrect and unhelpful
It would be important to separate out individual representation from the work of The College to support individuals to raise their standards, but this could be achieved by undertaking the representation function through a separate legal arm of The College, as happens with other Colleges in other professions. Is this Unison’s lawyers; Thompson?
Does this not represent a conflict of interests?
During a recession, is this really the right thing for government and individuals to spend their time and money on?
The Social Work Task Force consulted very widely on what was required to enable the profession to be reformed and one of their recommendations was that a College is required in order to provide independent leadership for the profession (see Social Work Task Force report). The need for excellent social work and quality support for the profession does not change with the economic climate.
The answer in my view is NO. How can the task force justify supporting a venture where a government spend of some TWO MILLION POUNDS on the development of a replica of BASW? BASW is a organisation which is self financing. This is particularly so when drastic cuts are been made to services and social workers conditions of service. I call on all social workers to say NO to this idle spend. Put the money into neglected services whose cuts are an indirect risk to service users. Let’s build on what we have (BASW) and together work to make the Association one that we are all proud off. BASW’s membership is growing, now over 13K. If 20K social workers joined today and decided to become involved, then it would not be BASW has we know it today. It would be a different BASW. You can join on line today.
Let start a list here is alternative use of the two million....
Who took part in the consultation?
The consultation took place between May and October 2010. It included:
· social workers who attended in events around the country and completed an online questionnaire How many?
· people who use social work services, including children and young people, parents, and carers, who took part in events around the country How many?
The Interim Board will be has considering all the feedback as it becomes available very carefully, in agreeing its vision for the College to reflect the views expressed during the consultation. If it is less than 13K then BASW should not be ignored. Unison claim to have 40K, but they do not consult with social workers in the same way. Did social workers vote for the single status? Just one of many!
oh well so now we are all clear !
Think i'll just cancel all memberships and not bother.
NALGO / UNISON were terrible in representing social work when i was a member . I am a member of BASW but despair.
So i may as well just save my money and go on a weekend break
Oooo, Baswsupport - bahh humbug!
You have obviously spent a lot of time and effort in expressing your views - views which you are evidently passionate about! Having said that, I do fear you are being very unfair about the college during these early stages. I also think your focus in wrong - this issue, for me, is not about yourself or BASW but the social work profession as a whole (sorry but that's how it comes across to me!)
I dont know (as with everyone) how things will pan out with the College or with BASW so why not wait until more details are sorted rather than firing off criticisms when we don't know all the details? Let's let those charged with this responsibility do their jobs.
I know BASW have been around for 40 years or so but I do think we need to wonder why, despite being in existence for this long, it has only got the relatively small membership that it has?
I personally will wait until we know more about the detail until wanting to pass judgement - I've learnt that from having my fingers burnt in the past!
First of all, I do not represent BASW. I support the social work profession, hence my membership in the professional association.
The views expressed are my own.
I am not being critical of the college, I also want what is best for the profession, however, we are at a turning point and this opportunity will only happen once. We have to make sure the profession gets the college it needs and deserves. I make no apologies for supporting BASW and the profession.
I reiterate, I am not being critical; I am just asking very relevant and pertinent questions. I posted questions yesterday which have not appeared on the wall yet. These questions are critical ones, and as far as I am concerned it is unethical that the college should be in discussions with BASW and yet seek to replica the association with the support of government money and Unison.
Doesn’t that feel uneasy? I certainly do not seek to divert the discussion away from building a single voice for the profession. But if that’s the same as BASW, what is the point? I would welcome a merger between BASW and the college; however, the college has to show itself to be an ethical organisation which is truly independent of any union.
If the college does not faith in itself to attract social workers and therefore be self financing (as BASW is) without depending on Unison; then why should we have faith in the college?
communitycare.co.uk + unison.org.uk + collegeofsocialwork.org - basw.co.uk = voice of social care work/ers?Some interesting links here and there...? Community Care and UNISON working together...."Community Care and UNISON’s Workplace Zone is funded by UNISON’s General Political Fund"http://www.communitycare.co.uk/unisonGeneral Political Fundhttp://www.unison.org.uk/gpf/index.aspQ. Who is/are the paymaster/s of communitycare.co.uk?A. ....................
Although I have much sympathy for the views expressed by BASWsupport I think it important that we conduct the debate calmly and with some understanding of all sides views. Clearly there are some bruised egos over events earlier this year that are getting in the way of recent developments. BASW earlier position of opposing the England College and holding a ballot in favour of a UK College and then subsequently changing its position confused many people and annoyed others. The Interim College Board was ill advised to sign up to an agreement with Unison ahead of considering BASW's offer to converge with he College. There should have been a three way meeting (and still should be) to reach a more inclusive arrangement to the benefit of all social workers. The Interim Board should not hide behind the cloak of commercial confidentiality and should fully disclose what financial arrangements have been made with Unison and if a deal is made with BASW similar disclosure.
Hi JoSoPhine
Unison has indeed funded us to produce the Workplace Zone - a clearly marked section of the site where we offer a mixture of content from ourselves and Unison with the aim of providing a useful service to the social care workforce.
We accept funding, in the form of advertising, from a whole range of social care bodies. That does not mean we are not completely independent of them or any other body, when it comes to editorial policy.
Simeon
CareSpace support
A reminder to all of you that no matter which union you choose to be a member of, representation by people who understand social work issues depends on whether people who understand social work issues choose to be stewards. If you're not happy with the understanding your union branch has of social work issues, check how many social workers are stewards. If there aren't any, elect some. Unions are about collective responsibility and action, not waiting for someone else to fix things for you.
Oh Baswsupport - democracy is important as is your platform to express your views but from the tone and style of your posts, this seems to be a much more personal issue for you.
How long have you worked for BASW?
Why not read the response from 'baswsupport' above - written in a personal capacity - so why do you have a problem 'Sue Pervision'?
Sue Pervision: Oh Baswsupport - democracy is important as is your platform to express your views but from the tone and style of your posts, this seems to be a much more personal issue for you. How long have you worked for BASW?
I have read your other post <http://www.communitycare.co.uk/carespace/forums/why-is-basw-so-obstructive-9222.aspx> and not sure of your slant, basw is legitimately voicing concerns, as long as only individual social care workers and not employers only have a statutory duty to comply with the likes of a gscc codes of conduct and employers can interpret rules as they see fit IE: Supervision (SuePervision) - then Reform Board suggestions will be nothing more than suggestions. Like Munro remaining silent on issues like assessment Thresholds therefore it is important that basw does not and is seen not to collude with mere technical 'reforms' whilst leaving systemic issues in tact.
Josophine, my slant is as i see it ... basw might not agree with somthing which is fair enough but rather than being professionl about it, the toys get thrown out of the pram. Thats why i posted my other thread as it looks like obstruction all the time.
maybe Im wrong but thats how i see it
Hello Rupert. when i read baswsupports responses it feels like a party political broadcast and having big postings to get the attention remind me of political spin.
May be I read too many political articles!
I dont have a problem; if i did, am sure basws service would solve everything for me
To be fair, the question posed on this thread is deliberately provocative and bound to elicit strong feelings (such is the nature of blogs!). What I would like to see at such an important moment for the profession is transparency in the process of an establishment of a College of Social Work. It is vital that the College is founded on principles and values that remain true to the profession and that as social workers we are both conversant with developments in order that we can have confidence in what is taking place. After all, this College will be accountable to us.
Only if you were a member 'Sue Pervision.' The fact that UNISON use BASW quite often must say something though and if the proposed College rate UNISON so highly then the link to BASW is inescapable!!!
Rainbird, can you please answer all the questions posed here.
When I started out I was a member of BASW and Social Work Today was the mag. Then I gleaned that C C Magazine was a better read and more in touch. I had paid my membership over the years to BASW then cancelled as I had had little for my money. I was a member of NALGO then UNISON. I was a militant activist. Due to personalities I subsequently left UNISON and joined the TGWU.
About six years ago I really needed informed representation in a dispute with my employer. I had paid for years and vehemently supported whoever I was with at the time. When I needed something back I suffered because the union could not get their head around the issues. I even had to advise the lawyers the union provided. It has been mentioned before that the best we have today is if your union rep happens to be a SW.
My ideal would have been a hybrid of BASW with the clout of a big union in other words a dedicated section of the union that really knew the issues surrounding social work. When you need representation you want more than someone who calls you brother and is good at banging desks and dramatically marching out of meetings.
I just want a strong collective informed voice for social work and don't care whether it is called BASISON or UNICOL. (Metaphorically speaking)
Thanks.
"
IF 'Rainbird' and 'JoSoPhine' are both official College Reps. it would be helpful / and even more open and honest if they were to formally identify themselves.
I believe that anyone responding offically on behalf of an Organisation should state eactly who they are and what position they hold.
Discriminatory?
Rupert M: IF 'Rainbird' and 'JoSoPhine' are both official College Reps. it would be helpful / and even more open and honest if they were to formally identify themselves. I believe that anyone responding offically on behalf of an Organisation should state eactly who they are and what position they hold.
Ania Rainbird, The College of Social Workhttp://www.communitycare.co.uk/carespace/forums/priorities-for-the-college-of-social-work-7533.aspx#32751
Source: http://www.communitycare.co.uk/carespace/members/rainbird/default.aspxMy own representation of BASW/Unison/College is based upon quotations from each organisation. IE: Evidence based.