Is it just me....or does anyone else think they can trust these self serving elitist organisations with their excutives stocked with managerial parasites as well as political refugees..... well at least one.....The recent grotesque attempts to amalgamate reduced to farce and a pissing contest. I,m sure Unison and Napo etc will be quaking in their boots....not.... lol
Pleasing to see that this post has met with the apathy and contempt it deserves. In my view both BASW and The College are annoying irrelevancies who will suck in funds from the gullible to line the pockets of a few failed social workers.
Totally agree Boxerdog.
These people provide nothing to social work and are a waste of time.
Nice to see some are waking up to the current crop of representation. But it doesn't mean the concept of collective strength should be ignored. We need a grassroots supremo led organisation; if that's not a contradiction in terms.
Problem is, people power seems to be unobtainable in pure terms. The power de-peoples them.
Maybe we should just accept democratic flaws. Or perhaps the only hope is an instant multi vote system, facilitated by something akin to a social networking site.
True people power.
So, ...if it is to be the official voice of Social Work anyway, ( in the government's eyes and policymakers...and employers [ cos thats what the task force wanted it to be]) ..Shouldn't you be encouraging people to join it, ? The only way Social workers can make it what it should be, is by joining, voting, participating in its governance and getting rid of the people and things you think are wrong with it.
If the kind of people you list above are running it, then it is because they are willing and available and no-one else is. And if your analysis is in any way accurate, then that is a fair indictment on the profession!
The only thing that can change a membership organisation is the members. If everyone with a view bales out and snipes ineffectually from these very minority- read forums ( even though it does make you feel powerful to see your words "published") then the " Official View" of the profession will be from a college led by employees, followed by a small minority of passive ineffectual idealists with more money than energy.
Join the thing and change it! It could be really worthwhile and raise standards, public perception influence and self esteem and confidence of practitioners. But it needs the Social Workers who give a damn to get in there and fight for it, and actually make it theirs.
As David Cameron and Nick Clegg have just found out....the politics of opposition are so much easier and publically popular than the politics of governance.
"MTFU" and join it and put some effective effort in. With 20-40 K members, it would be truly representative and influencial.
How completely naive your comments are 'silver sage' - you only have to look at almost all groups / organisations to see that the tail wags the dog - if things were different social work would not be in the parlous state that it is - any more than society as a whole is.
BASW has proven to be destructive in its College negotiations with only a tiny minority of voices raised even in favour of the direction it went in and even less against. UNISON also does not have any proven track record of standing up for social workers who are only a minority of its membership whereas they comprise all of BASW's membership - but can anyone really say that BASW is member-led and representative?
My dear friend Mary Brady, who I refer to again, is right - there will always be a tide of indifference.
You know what. I cant be arsed with joining a tin pot organisation. I go to work, do my job to the employers specification whilst observing the law of the land and guidance from GSCC and Policy Implementation Guides. I get paid, have a good work life balance and leave the policy making to those who are paid to do it.
knock yourself out Silver Sage if you think you will change anything as i think you will find organisations change when people do not engage with them and they have little or no membership whatsover.
In the meantime, bang the drum and wave the placard as these organisations are not run for the benefit of anyone but those within it. They serve no purpose in my worklife.
Quod erat demonstrandum......!!
You are correct in your comments about UNISON. From my experience they are worse than useless. My rep told me he would 'try' to get somebody to a GSCC preliminary proceedings committee hearing to represent me. Fortunately I was prepared, represented myself and the outcome was favourable. The majority of Social Workers need assistance from the trade union when things go wrong. Don't rely on UNISON. I would advise all practising social workers to ensure they have legal expenses cover on their home insurance and save themselves the expense of the subscription.
Unions....load of garbage.
My business insurance covers solicitors costs and court fees for employment based issues. What you need is representation by a Human Resource Specialist not some namby pamby half hearted/witted "friend" from the union.
Never had any hassle with my job to want to get represented but dont waste your money on these unions; employers are not daunted by them. Get them into court with a fully briefed HR/legal rep and they soon back off.
tricky: Unions....load of garbage. My business insurance covers solicitors costs and court fees for employment based issues. What you need is representation by a Human Resource Specialist not some namby pamby half hearted/witted "friend" from the union. Never had any hassle with my job to want to get represented but dont waste your money on these unions; employers are not daunted by them. Get them into court with a fully briefed HR/legal rep and they soon back off.
interesting that is tricky - never been a fan of unions as they have let me and others down abjectly in the past but am a member purely from the fear factor and always advise others to do the same(cos thats the advice ive had)
never realised there was a genuine alternative that worked - see you dont have actual experience of using it but im willing to bet it cant be worse than even the bigger unions
far too many (ime) union reps are children playing at big boy games
Those pesky unions eh, never get you anything, all useless. Unless of course you count in the minimum wage, equal pay, health and safety legislation, collective bargaining, free legal advice and representation. Tell the scores of workers who get their jobs back when unfairly dismissed because union of representation that their subs are all a waste of time and money and see what they think of union membership.
I love it when a forensic killer blow is delivered.......well done tiptop....don't know what your right hook is like but your left floated like a butterfly and stung like a ***
Hi Tiptop
Those are good points you make and if a trade union works as the say they do on the tin then great.
Boxerdog: Pleasing to see that this post has met with the apathy and contempt it deserves. In my view both BASW and The College are annoying irrelevancies who will suck in funds from the gullible to line the pockets of a few failed social workers.
Whilst having modicum of self-interest one of the most indepth threads of this and related topic is here: http://www.communitycare.co.uk/carespace/forums/would-you-be-a-member-of-both-basw-and-the-9157.aspx?PageIndex=22
though I would agree that since BASW changed it's name without any member voting for such a not too insignificant amount of apathy antipathy has set in.
Now BASW had a referendum on setting up a UK College, that was really little more than attempt to stake a claim over the putative England college and little else. This referendum was on the surface quite representative of the membership, now fast forward to the AGM of 26/5/11 and it's 170 or so cadre attendees and they (< 1% of all members) voted for a dedicated Social Work Union (SWU) and continued negotiations with the SWRB The College of Social Work (TCSW) on a Single College. Setting up a Union is presented as critical and appears to be a major block on a Single College, so why not arrange a referendum for a SWU, especially as it is suppose to be a separate organisation......
Anyway BASW's recent shenanigans has neutered the College and any victory it claims is now just an empty vessel rattling around which is likely to be put on the shelf of rejects after it attempted to smash the other one (TCSW) out of self-interest.
Unions often commission "fully briefed HR/legal rep" for members, as does BASW and any organisation that claims to represent fee paying members interests, insurance is usually taken out by the self-employed/independent social care worker, as they often can't get Union representation but can make the best use of the Tax avoidance codes too boost their income well above local authority staff, the latter being another story altogether different.
Neutered, lacking in integrity and unloved.....am awaiting the next thrilling instalment in this suicide note
I know that it is never wise to take forum posts personally but I can't help feeling slightly affronted by some of the comments about Unison and union reps on here. I have been a union rep for several years and I can tell you that when we are representing someone in an unfair dismissal, disciplinary action or redundancy situation, we live, sleep and breathe their case. We spend hours and hours of our own time researching, preparing, and gathering evidence to support our member. We take on management within our own organisation at risk to our own personal careers in order to fight for our members rights. I have members calling me at home when they feel they cannot cope and I am the one who puts them back together. AND WE WIN! I have never lost a case and as a result colleagues have had jobs reinstated - redundancy packages doubled - bullying stopped - training opportunities given. We most definitly give our members value for money and the more people who muck in and help the stronger we are. If we are unable to win a case internally and it goes to tribunal than the member will get all their professional legal representation free plus ongoing support from us as a branch. On a national level unions have achieved so much that can so easily be taken for granted. The governments plans at the moment DEPEND on weak unions with apathetic members who have given up hope of unified action. If you want the governement plans to succeed then by all means give up on your union, otherwise they are the last chance we have to prevent the complete Thatcherisation of our country.
As a former shop steward and Branch Chairman I whole heatedly agree that NALGO/Unison over the years has provided an excellent service to its social work members. Being involved in disciplinary and grievance procedures is a very small albeit important service a union provides. BASW has very few branches based on local authorities and is unlikely to gain recognition in negotiating pay and conditions. Far better BASW's Advice&Representation Unit become part of an existing union (preferably Unison) rather than be cast adrift as what would happen if BASW proceeds with its current proposal.
I like your post Happyhaze, I don't have any experience of Unison as a social worker but my boyfriend needed representation at his job ( a university) when they decided to try and sack him for coming in late on three occasions over two years.
The union rep was brilliant, another colleague of my boyfriends had pretty much the same thing, she didn't get represented and they fired her on the spot. My boyfriend kept his job and as they had not stipulated his exact working hours management was told to change their practice. I think the outcome would have been very different if he didn't have representation.
Many staff have been very disillusioned with Union representation from UNISON although, experiences will as a matter of course be varied.
BASW's Advice & Representation Service has been used by UNISON on occasions when workers have dual membership because it has the 'professional' expertise but, on balance, I agree that BASW seeking to set up its own Trade Union is almost certainly doomed to failure and would never achieve TUC recognition so it would be better if the A&R Service was maintained in some format and subsumed within whatever Organisation eventually emerges from this whole sorry College of Social Work / BASW The College of Social Work dispute / debacle.
If you are primarily concerned with your 'professional status' and to surround yourself with people like you, who regard themselves as being 'professionals' (as opposed to mere workers) above all else then by all means join a Professional Association and leave it at that. If you are concerned with your interests as an employee who has to sell your skills and labour, and if you are concerned about those who work alongside you and see some benefit in collective strength and organisation, then join a union. Everyone working in this field benefits from the work of unions to improve working conditions and wages (and the vast majority of Social Workers are on union negotiated salaries) so some people might argue that those who make no contribution to this collective effort are already getting something for nothing (or freeloading on their colleagues to be blunt about it).
Trade union reps/shop stewards/branch officers/full-time-officials may be competent or incompetent, they may act with integrity or be corrupt, they may be honest or dishonest and trade unions branches may be effecient and effective or moribund and inefficient - and I have been around long enough to have witnessed all of these scenarios. It makes no difference to the principles involved because unions are made up of members and the state of the union (good or bad) and the quality, competence and integrity of its leadership reflects the levels of ability, interest and participation by the membership to a great extent.
As someone concerned with the practical and economic interests of people working across the Social and Community Care Sector (especially in the Voluntary and non-statutory services) I have no interest in whether or not BASW and the "College of Social Work" (whatever that is) merge. I am happy for them to consider closer relationships with unions like my own but I want no truck with those who hold their fellow workers in (thinly disguised) contempt merely because they don't have letters after their name or belong to a "Professional Association".
I well recall BASW's previous experiment with setting up a trade union arm; BUSW - which later merged with the NALGO breakaway body, NUSW, to form BUSWE. BUSWE is nowadays a section within Community, a fully-fledged, TUC affiliated trade union which seeks to recruit and represent all those working in the Social & Community Care sector (especially in VoluntarySector and non-statutory service providers). The Social & Community Care, Voluntary Sector and Social Housing Workers' branches of Community (www.offbeat.karoo.net/community.pdf) are actually trying to deal with the real issues facing all workers in this sector and these are not affected at all by debates over which professional bodies claim to represent the "Social Work Profession". If BASW want to re-run their 1970s experiment then I (not being a BASW member) have no say in the matter, but I can tell them now it will be a waste of time and resources. The vast majority of people working in Social and Community Care are not members of BASW and the majority of those who are in the statutory public services, including the minority who are in BASW, are members of a trade union (mostly UNISON in these services) and will be even less tempted to join a BASW sponsored "Social Work Union" than the previous generation were in the 1970s.
Outside the statutory services union membership is far lower. However, even here it will be evident to most employees that a genuine trade union, which actually believes in collective strength and solidarity and has a track record of organising and respresenting workers of all grades, is a far better bet than some outfit that bases its approach on professionalism and the exclusion of those workers who don't come up to their professional standards.
The health and well-being of (for example) residents in a care home is just as dependent on the low-paid, often part-time, workers who clean the toilets, do the laundry and cook and serve the food as it is on those who offer counselling and social work support. Those who recognise this and opt to join a collective organisation which seeks to represent everyone employed in the organisation, whatever their professional status, will be welcomed into that union and as members they have some responsibility for seeing that it is effective, democratic and operates with integrity on behalf of all members.
Those who want to stand on their status and opt out of any responsibility towards their colleagues and workmates can rely on their insurance policies and Professional Associations - but don't come crying to the union if and when you discover that collective organisations offer some services and advantages that individual insurance doesn't cover. Union membership is not like an insurance policy in most regards but the one thing they do have in common is that neither can be back-dated.
Spot on CommunityUnion. I well remember the setting up of the so called Union of Democratic Mineworkers who also prattled on about militancy and being non-political while negotiating with the Thatcher government about pirivatisation and reducing the "power" of the NUM and NACODS. Their pay off was the closure of the Nottinghamshire coalfields and their scab leader was so shocked that an employer would lie to him he staged a sit in and gave his OBE back. Last heard he had lost his 'union' post and was crying that he had been duped even though he had agreed that miners should work longer for worse terms and conditions and that he had promised not to oppose new work contratcts that curtailed the rights of miners to take their cases to an employment tribunal. BASW are nothing more than the socia lwork equvilant. They despise workers, are elitists and self serving lackeys, hence why they never engage in open debate, are obsseively anti-democratic, see opposing views as something to smother through innuendo and have no relevance to the real expereinces of social and care workers who daily face service cuts and threats of worsening terms and conditions and the arrogance of employers who can not wait to introduce "efficiencies" into our work. The utterly pointless debaters about professionalism are in the same camp as the freeloaders who rubbish unions but never seem to reject improvements in working conditions and pay increases won by unions.
Boxerdog: I love it when a forensic killer blow is delivered.......well done tiptop....don't know what your right hook is like but your left floated like a butterfly and stung like a ***
If only it was 'forensic' Shirak - it is nothing like. It as generalised and unspecific about BASW as are those postings criticising Unions.
BASW is a Professional Association, not a Trade Union, so perhaps 'tiptop' sees ALL Professional Associations in the same light as BASW.
Rupert M, unless I have been in a paralell universe, I thought that BASW-the College of Social work are touting themselves as a Trade Union to be! I thought they were miffed htat UNISON was signed up to be the union for the real Social work college, ergo you are wide of the mark {perhaps again?}. As for professional associations, the BMA is a trade union by another name, the Bar Asociation is a trade union by another name, BASW is a tinpot organisation representing a true figure of 15,000 self serving former and a never practiced individuals who like you delude themselves that they are a profession. In truth social workers are a disparate group of people whose sole unifying feature is that they are workers whose qualification is based on an unfit for purpose academic study that has none of the defined characteristics of professional training. I know it is painful to have done an MA which leaves you with a sense of uselessness on qualificatio,n but there you go, we all have to be oriented to realities at some point in our lives. So no, I do not see ALL Preofessional Associations in the same light as BASW because by my definition there is nothing professional about social work nor BASW.
Hey Communityunion
What a strange and aggressive response. Maybe you dont like any opinions other than your own?
I wont come crying to a union and I am not intersted in cleaning toilets.
BASW's decision to launch its own trade union prior to its merger with the College is I suspect is part of Hilton's plan to become Chief Executive of the merged College. If he succeeds BASW will drop the setting up of a union, which is clearly an empty shell with no prospect of gaining local authority recognition. Perhaps he should become an MP (oh he did but did not like being left on the back benches!).
I agree. they sound like they have swallowed a book of hate filled cliches. and they lack insight and tolerance. Yuk. not nice
I was for several years a Unison rep or Convenor and also a social worker. During that time I used the training and skill I developed to pull a number of social workers and others out of the mire and certainly saved a number of them their jobs.
Even if you do not feel any inclination to join a great collectivist movement that has a proud history of changing the world in favour of the workers, you should join just because you never know what will go wrong tomorrow. It's the same principle as joining the RAC.
To be clear, if you are involved in disciplinary, sickness or grievance proceedings your employer will not let you be represented by a solicitor or other professional no matter how good your insurance. if you are dismissed and have a viable case at an employment tribunal, then your union will provide a specialist lawyer to represent you.
if you would actually prefer that it did not get to that stage, then get a trained, exxperienced and well supported rep. on your side. Namby pamby? I used to relish the opportunity to say (to myself) "It's clobberin' time"!